Z/28- Road Course King

[Q-ship]

Why is it assumed that anyone who thinks small displacement means a twin turbo V6??? How about a high winding light weight 5.3 or 5.7 liter with a true weight reduction of 150-300 lbs out of the car, it might not take a GT500 on a long striaghtaway track but it will put the hurt to it on a tight techincal track.

IMO a great Z28 would be a tuned up LS3 that is putting 450 HP and 440 TQ, weight reduction of 200 lbs (300 is better), with a taught tuned suspension and 3.73 gears. The current SS isn't that far off that solid axle GT500 on a road course, the car I put together would be cheaper, faster, better street ride, that would be passing that tail out Mustang when the track wasn't glass smooth (like most tracks are not). How about beat them with a velvet glove rather than trying out power them and unbalance the car in the process.

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Its not easy to drop weight out of a finalized design....

Really tell that to the Corvette team who did the ZR1 and keep the weight down after adding a heavier driveline. It isn't easy but isn't as hard as one would think, just take out one ounce 160 times and you just drop 10 lbs out of a car.

[xBlaCkJacKx]

Originally Posted by Q-ship

Really tell that to the Corvette team who did the ZR1 and keep the weight down after adding a heavier driveline. It isn't easy but isn't as hard as one would think, just take out one ounce 160 times and you just drop 10 lbs out of a car.

But that came at a very high cost. Hell, most of that car is carbon fiber. This is not something I could see them pulling off with the Camaro, unless it was the ZL1.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Q-ship

Really tell that to the Corvette team who did the ZR1 and keep the weight down after adding a heavier driveline. It isn't easy but isn't as hard as one would think, just take out one ounce 160 times and you just drop 10 lbs out of a car.

The ZR1 is heavier than a Z06 by 158 lbs. Its even heavier than the steel framed base Corvette by 125 lbs. Yes it would weigh more if they didn't employ the weight savings techniques but that probably amounted to less than 30 lbs. And yes, that 30 was at very high cost. Thats what happens when you try to reduce the weight of an aluminum framed, fibreglass skinned car. The nearly all steel Camaro has potential for a much better return of investment when it comes to weight savings

[BeermanSS]

Originally Posted by xBlaCkJacKx

But that came at a very high cost. Hell, most of that car is carbon fiber. This is not something I could see them pulling off with the Camaro, unless it was the ZL1.

what the heck does the label on the car have to do with it?

[BeermanSS]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The ZR1 is heavier than a Z06 by 158 lbs. Its even heavier than the steel framed base Corvette by 125 lbs. Yes it would weigh more if they didn't employ the weight savings techniques but that probably amounted to less than 30 lbs. And yes, that 30 was at very high cost. Thats what happens when you try to reduce the weight of an aluminum framed, fibreglass skinned car. The nearly all steel Camaro has potential for a much better return of investment when it comes to weight savings

but what would you do? skin it fiberglass or carbon fiber, go to an aluminum frame, pull out interior things?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

but what would you do? skin it fiberglass or carbon fiber, go to an aluminum frame, pull out interior things?

The Camaro doesn't exactly have a frame like the Corvette. But anyway, since you asked ... I'd go for door skins, and trunk lid as well as possibly front fenders (if not, due to strength requirements, use aluminum). Then remove some sound insulation and lighter mufflers. Overall it would cost a fraction as much as carbon fibre or an all-aluminum structure would and would still save a good deal of weight over the existing SS. 100 lbs for a few grand extra seems pretty doable. After that you get into diminishing returns.

[Mikes SS]

Don't forget, Seibon carbon already is one step ahead of the game. They already are producing doors, fenders and trunklid and hood. I might be inclined to go that route if the Z doesn't come around. the price is not to unrealistic for the weight savings. I am sure that GM could get a better price for said items it they bought a large quantity and put them into a production car, I think people would be more inclined to spend 50-75 dollars more a month on their car payment for the upgrades rather than shelling out 5 grand plus labor to change them out themselves.

[radz28]

I seriously doubt GM will do any carbon fiber, in significant amounts on Z28. I believe the first major components they used carbon fiber were on the C6 Z06 fenders (?was in on the underside of the hood on SE C5 Z06s too?...), and that's it. They're using a lot more for ZR1, but that car is in a different league. Unless GM is planning on selling a $60K - $70K Z28, I'd almost be willing to place a bet there won't be significant carbon fiber usage. It's too expensive and too complicated to get into a production car. JMHO.

[DGthe3]

I'm aware that carbon fibre parts are out there, that doesn't mean I think GM should use them. Thats what I was getting at with the diminishing returns. CF costs at about 70% more than fibreglass, yet it gives about 20% more weight savings. These numbers will vary, but its a reasonable ball park figure.

So lets say you use fibreglass and it costs $3000 for the parts and save 100 lbs vs steel. Pretty good value. The same parts made from carbon fibre would cost ~$5000 and save you 120 lbs. Thats $2000 more for a mere 20 lbs. Not worth it in my books

[BeermanSS]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The Camaro doesn't exactly have a frame like the Corvette. But anyway, since you asked ... I'd go for door skins, and trunk lid as well as possibly front fenders (if not, due to strength requirements, use aluminum). Then remove some sound insulation and lighter mufflers. Overall it would cost a fraction as much as carbon fibre or an all-aluminum structure would and would still save a good deal of weight over the existing SS. 100 lbs for a few grand extra seems pretty doable. After that you get into diminishing returns.

good plan, i think that sounds like a good start to a z28. How about powerplant? What would you be inclined to put in? And suspension parts? any way to replace these with lighter, stiffer parts w/o huge cost increases?

[BeermanSS]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I'm aware that carbon fibre parts are out there, that doesn't mean I think GM should use them. Thats what I was getting at with the diminishing returns. CF costs at about 70% more than fibreglass, yet it gives about 20% more weight savings. These numbers will vary, but its a reasonable ball park figure.

So lets say you use fibreglass and it costs $3000 for the parts and save 100 lbs vs steel. Pretty good value. The same parts made from carbon fibre would cost ~$5000 and save you 120 lbs. Thats $2000 more for a mere 20 lbs. Not worth it in my books

I get you its about weight savings to dollar ratio. Makes sense since nobody wants a $100k Camaro Z28

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by BeermanSS

good plan, i think that sounds like a good start to a z28. How about powerplant? What would you be inclined to put in? And suspension parts? any way to replace these with lighter, stiffer parts w/o huge cost increases?

here what I posted in the "Dream Z28" thread

Originally Posted by DGthe3

• Engine roughly equal to LS7* in revs, hp, and torque, with dry sump oiling
• Fibreglass (or possibly aluminum) front fenders, door skins, and trunk lid
• LS interior features
• no sunroof or premium sound options
• light weight seats (none of that heavy heated power leather stuff!)
• revised aerodynamics for improved downforce
• larger brakes
• improved suspension
• lighter, wider wheels
• less sound deadening
• more aggressive gearing

Target weight would be around 3600 lbs and cost in the mid to high 40's.

* this is assuming the LS7 is being discontinued shortly, if not...use it!

The weight looks a little optimistic, but since its not all in bodywork and stuff like the LS interior is worth around 50 lbs on its own.

[2cnd chance]

the lighter weight & more expensive parts will change the crash worthiness and especially insurance rates (due to the expense of the parts).

[a_Username]

What DG described would probably only interest the car enthusiast who plan on making this a road course car... you have to know that the new Z/28 should peak interest in those who never even plan on modifying it.