Transmission output shaft

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by CynAgain

ok, this is good. I'd like to restate what you have written so I can make sure I understand exactly what you are saying and please let me know if I am wrong about anything.



So did I get this right? Is there anything else about this situation you would like to clarify?

If all this is true, then you as an effected customer would like to do everything possible to help me, a potentially effected customer, from suffering the same embarrassment and anger that you've experienced with this issue?

My next question is what can you and I (not the mods, not C5), but we as customers, do next?

Although I think you're overstating my anger, yes, you've got it. I'm not sitting here fuming at the keyboard.

So probably more like this...

GM made a promise to notify effected customers and I'm annoyed because this has not been done yet.

This situation hit me personally and I would like to prevent it from happening to others if possible.

I was expecting a call if my car was susceptible to this problem. I did not receive a call but did have the problem which added to the embarrassment of breaking down in my brand new car.

I feel mislead and dissapointed because GM has not followed up.

When I was talking to the neighbor earlier, I wasn't crying in embarassment lol. I wouldn't quite call it a "kick in the shin" but obviously I would've much rather discussed my good run time than GM fixing my car under warranty. Apparently he has a Mustang so I can only imagine the snide remarks he was thinking of .

I have a passionate style of writing and I am passionate about this but it's not consuming my personal life or anything.

So what can we do as Joe (or Jane) schmos? Well I was trying to raise a stink and raise the awareness so that the GM folks would be forced to comment on it and do something about it. That's on hold at the moment. We really are pretty much powerless in this. We can call and complain but that will go upon deaf ears. The only way to get this taken care of at the moment is to have it break and get a new transmission which is a pretty shitty way of handling a known problem.


I would like to add that my car definitely feels a bit different now. I've been hoping that it would kinda break in but it doesn't really seem to be happening. The new trans seems less smooth than before and a bit clunkier. Like there's more slack in the gear linkage and driveline overall if that makes any sense? Is there anything the dealership could reasonably do about this? Something they can adjust? Third gear seems particularly rough. There's like a hitch going into it sometimes. It's kinda hard to explain.

[CynAgain]

Ok, cool. I understand much better now about how you feel and your frame of mind. Thanks for taking the time to explain. And if you do take your car back to the shop for the concerns with the new tranny keep us in the loop please.

Thanks for sharing.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Although I think you're overstating my anger, yes, you've got it. I'm not sitting here fuming at the keyboard.

So probably more like this...

GM made a promise to notify effected customers and I'm annoyed because this has not been done yet.

This situation hit me personally and I would like to prevent it from happening to others if possible.

I was expecting a call if my car was susceptible to this problem. I did not receive a call but did have the problem which added to the embarrassment of breaking down in my brand new car.

I feel mislead and dissapointed because GM has not followed up.

When I was talking to the neighbor earlier, I wasn't crying in embarassment lol. I wouldn't quite call it a "kick in the shin" but obviously I would've much rather discussed my good run time than GM fixing my car under warranty. Apparently he has a Mustang so I can only imagine the snide remarks he was thinking of .

I have a passionate style of writing and I am passionate about this but it's not consuming my personal life or anything.

So what can we do as Joe (or Jane) schmos? Well I was trying to raise a stink and raise the awareness so that the GM folks would be forced to comment on it and do something about it. That's on hold at the moment. We really are pretty much powerless in this. We can call and complain but that will go upon deaf ears. The only way to get this taken care of at the moment is to have it break and get a new transmission which is a pretty shitty way of handling a known problem.


I would like to add that my car definitely feels a bit different now. I've been hoping that it would kinda break in but it doesn't really seem to be happening. The new trans seems less smooth than before and a bit clunkier. Like there's more slack in the gear linkage and driveline overall if that makes any sense? Is there anything the dealership could reasonably do about this? Something they can adjust? Third gear seems particularly rough. There's like a hitch going into it sometimes. It's kinda hard to explain.

I wonder what the differences are in the new transmission that was put in in comparison to the original for it to feel different?

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I wonder what the differences are in the new transmission that was put in in comparison to the original for it to feel different?

Before this turns into something it's not, it could very well easily just be all in my head. I went for a drive last night and it seemed ok. It's most smooth when rowing through all the gears. It sticks the most when downshifting or skipping gears. But I think it did that before.

[camarorick]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

I would like to add that my car definitely feels a bit different now. I've been hoping that it would kinda break in but it doesn't really seem to be happening. The new trans seems less smooth than before and a bit clunkier. Like there's more slack in the gear linkage and driveline overall if that makes any sense? Is there anything the dealership could reasonably do about this? Something they can adjust? Third gear seems particularly rough. There's like a hitch going into it sometimes. It's kinda hard to explain.

My car has been like this since day 1... The looseness I was told is "normal", but now with the cold weather here up north, I'm hearing a slight grind going into 3rd

I will be taking my car in next spring to have this, and the front suspension issue resolved ( hopefully )

By the way, Thanks for keeping this thread alive I believe there are many more people with this problem only they don't know any better..... yet

[Rick@Metco]

[QUOTE=Ltdodge;1208590]....most people that already broke theirs don't care anymore since they got a new tranny so its not thier problem anymore. /QUOTE]

Slightly off topic...But do we know this to be true? Has anyone broken the output shaft in the replacement transmission?
Are there any cars with replacement transmissions that have been run hard enough to indicate that the problem is now definitively eliminated?

[IROCanSS]

I'm sorry, I think this thread is still a waste... Don't flame me for saying that.

My take... Tremec makes the tranny shaft (maybe)... maybe it is an outsorced part. there is a big bin full of shafts... most good, a few bad. these shafts go into transmissions... which ones are bad , Does Tremec know, unlikely. Does GM know, unlikely. So time goes by and a few break.. enough to cause a stir at GM and Tremec. Maybe they check the shafts, maybe they don't, who knows... Out of the thousands of cars, yes some broke. It is like from one batch of production that got mixed in with days and days of good shafts. Thats why its all over the place.

I think GM spoke too soon by saying they would notify people with bad shafts b/c now they are probably thinking... crap... we have no idea what ones are bad. So now what? Do you want them to come out and say... sorry, our bad, we dont know which ones are bad... That would just start more bashing. Let the cars that are going to break just break. GM has fixed every last one of them and will continue to do so as they break.

OP... if you would have gotten a call what would you ahve done? Taken it in? You think the dealer would know how to check the steel to know that is was proper strength? maybe you want them to replace the shaft? the tranny? if it isnt broke... not gonna happen. I am sorry yours broke and your mustang buddy saw it... big deal. At least you didnt drive your Veyron into the drink while on your cell phone with some guys videoing it!

[UCF w00t]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

My take... Tremec makes the tranny shaft (maybe)... maybe it is an outsorced part. there is a big bin full of shafts... most good, a few bad. these shafts go into transmissions... which ones are bad , Does Tremec know, unlikely. Does GM know, unlikely. So time goes by and a few break.. enough to cause a stir at GM and Tremec. Maybe they check the shafts, maybe they don't, who knows... Out of the thousands of cars, yes some broke. It is like from one batch of production that got mixed in with days and days of good shafts. Thats why its all over the place.

If this is how their production facilities are operating, they've got a lot bigger problems. What are you imagining? A big pile of shafts where some guy in mexico just randomly grabs one and sticks it in the transmission? Use some logic here. Have you ever seen a manufacturing facility? Everything is planned and engineered in precise orders. It's not a bunch of people running all over the place picking parts out of big bins. So yes, I expect that GM and Tremec could come up with a list that weren't properly hardened. But due to the way metals work, some may be sufficiently hard and others may not. That doesn't mean that they were done properly, it just means that they were lucky enough that the metal cured in a fashion that is sufficient for the stresses involved.

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I think GM spoke too soon by saying they would notify people with bad shafts b/c now they are probably thinking... crap... we have no idea what ones are bad. So now what? Do you want them to come out and say... sorry, our bad, we dont know which ones are bad... That would just start more bashing. Let the cars that are going to break just break. GM has fixed every last one of them and will continue to do so as they break.

It's called honesty and integrity. If GM promised something that they later realized they cannot deliver upon, they need to suck it up and do the right thing and tell us that. If they have to take their lumps, fine. But doing so will engender trust and will do more to help than hurt in the long run. If they do that and people start bashing them, I'll be the first to defend (with the caveat that it took to long but at least they did the right thing in the end).

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

OP... if you would have gotten a call what would you ahve done? Taken it in? You think the dealer would know how to check the steel to know that is was proper strength? maybe you want them to replace the shaft? the tranny? if it isnt broke... not gonna happen. I am sorry yours broke and your mustang buddy saw it... big deal. At least you didnt drive your Veyron into the drink while on your cell phone with some guys videoing it!

Although I'm not the OP, I'm assuming you're referring to me. Again, it goes back to honesty and integrity. They could clearly explain it to the customers and offer that they replace the shaft. Leave it up to the customer to get it done or not. I toss in an ironic story and you run with it. This has nothing to do with "my mustang buddy" (whom I don't even know), I started this 'crusade' long before yesterday. And I did nothing to this car that it should not have been able to handle. I didn't crash it because I was talking on the phone so I don't see what that idiot has to do with this situation.

I really don't see how people can continue to disagree with us expecting GM to live up to a promise that they voluntarily made. Where is the logic in this? If they can't live up to it, they just need to come out and say it.

[IROCanSS]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

If this is how their production facilities are operating, they've got a lot bigger problems. What are you imagining? A big pile of shafts where some guy in mexico just randomly grabs one and sticks it in the transmission?

No, I am not saying a big bin of random shafts like paperclips in a box BUT I am betting the trannys have #, we all know that, BUT shafts don't. It is a small part that i am betting is not tracked. And yes I have seen several car plants in action. Though they track most parts, not all. Lets take something simple... wheel lug posts. A crutial part of the integrity of the car. Say there is a batch of bad wheel lug posts and they snap and wheels fall off... do you think they track those and could narrow it down? NO WAY! I am just betting the tracking on a part of a part is not tracked. Same thing with gears in the rear end. The rear end assembly would have a number they could track but the individual gears... unlikely.


Use some logic here. Have you ever seen a manufacturing facility? Everything is planned and engineered in precise orders. It's not a bunch of people running all over the place picking parts out of big bins. So yes, I expect that GM and Tremec could come up with a list that weren't properly hardened. But due to the way metals work, some may be sufficiently hard and others may not. That doesn't mean that they were done properly, it just means that they were lucky enough that the metal cured in a fashion that is sufficient for the stresses involved.


They do have a "range" Under 20K is the last I heard. If you are under 20K, consider yourself notified. I am 32K I am not too worried but is it possible I have a bad shaft... sure it is. Am I freaking about it... not at all. If it breaks, I will take it in and get it fixed. No biggie and I wolnt bitch b/c someone didnt call and tell me.

It's called honesty and integrity. If GM promised something that they later realized they cannot deliver upon, they need to suck it up and do the right thing and tell us that. If they have to take their lumps, fine. But doing so will engender trust and will do more to help than hurt in the long run. If they do that and people start bashing them, I'll be the first to defend (with the caveat that it took to long but at least they did the right thing in the end).


Although I'm not the OP, I'm assuming you're referring to me. Again, it goes back to honesty and integrity. They could clearly explain it to the customers and offer that they replace the shaft. Leave it up to the customer to get it done or not. I toss in an ironic story and you run with it. This has nothing to do with "my mustang buddy" (whom I don't even know), I started this 'crusade' long before yesterday. And I did nothing to this car that it should not have been able to handle. I didn't crash it because I was talking on the phone so I don't see what that idiot has to do with this situation.

You started on a journey that isnt going anywhere. You are just beating yourself up. We are small fry to GM. Save yourself the headache and let it go.

I really don't see how people can continue to disagree with us expecting GM to live up to a promise that they voluntarily made. Where is the logic in this? If they can't live up to it, they just need to come out and say it.

.

[3 SS's]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

.

Let it go?????

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

I'm sorry, I think this thread is still a waste... Don't flame me for saying that.

My take... Tremec makes the tranny shaft (maybe)... maybe it is an outsorced part. there is a big bin full of shafts... most good, a few bad. these shafts go into transmissions... which ones are bad , Does Tremec know, unlikely. Does GM know, unlikely. So time goes by and a few break.. enough to cause a stir at GM and Tremec. Maybe they check the shafts, maybe they don't, who knows... Out of the thousands of cars, yes some broke. It is like from one batch of production that got mixed in with days and days of good shafts. Thats why its all over the place.

I think GM spoke too soon by saying they would notify people with bad shafts b/c now they are probably thinking... crap... we have no idea what ones are bad. So now what? Do you want them to come out and say... sorry, our bad, we dont know which ones are bad... That would just start more bashing. Let the cars that are going to break just break. GM has fixed every last one of them and will continue to do so as they break.

OP... if you would have gotten a call what would you ahve done? Taken it in? You think the dealer would know how to check the steel to know that is was proper strength? maybe you want them to replace the shaft? the tranny? if it isnt broke... not gonna happen. I am sorry yours broke and your mustang buddy saw it... big deal. At least you didnt drive your Veyron into the drink while on your cell phone with some guys videoing it!

This thread is not a waste. It is highly important for GM to know there are Camaro customers worried about this issue and want answers. It's as simple as that. I don't agree with those who are staying quiet because they are protecting GM and I do not agree with those who want to quiet us down as you are. If it is causing an argument in order to get this thread locked, then all you end up doing is wasting all of our time here who actually want to see this resolved. So please, enough is enough and let us do our best to get to the bottom of this and get Gm's involvement as well which I'm sure will come at some point. Hopefully sooner than later.

[3 SS's]

Originally Posted by Supermans

This thread is not a waste. It is highly important for GM to know there are Camaro customers worried about this issue and want answers. It's as simple as that. I don't agree with those who are staying quiet because they are protecting GM and I do not agree with those who want to quiet us down as you are. If it is causing an argument in order to get this thread locked, then all you end up doing is wasting all of our time here who actually want to see this resolved. So please, enough is enough and let us do our best to get to the bottom of this and get Gm's involvement as well which I'm sure will come at some point. Hopefully sooner than later.

Well said, and If I can add , that if this issue isn't a concern to some, please don't come in this thread and criticize those who are concerned and are trying to get answers.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

Before this turns into something it's not, it could very well easily just be all in my head. I went for a drive last night and it seemed ok. It's most smooth when rowing through all the gears. It sticks the most when downshifting or skipping gears. But I think it did that before.

Originally Posted by camarorick

My car has been like this since day 1... The looseness I was told is "normal", but now with the cold weather here up north, I'm hearing a slight grind going into 3rd

I will be taking my car in next spring to have this, and the front suspension issue resolved ( hopefully )

By the way, Thanks for keeping this thread alive I believe there are many more people with this problem only they don't know any better..... yet

Royal Purple tranny fluid is known to help some. Just put the GM crap back in before warranty trans service.

Syncros may still break-in some.

May need another tranny.

Originally Posted by Ltdodge

....most people that already broke theirs don't care anymore since they got a new tranny so its not thier problem anymore. /QUOTE]

Slightly off topic...But do we know this to be true? Has anyone broken the output shaft in the replacement transmission?Are there any cars with replacement transmissions that have been run hard enough to indicate that the problem is now definitively eliminated?

None posted so far.

We do believe any unit will break with excess wheel-hop.

Originally Posted by Supermans

This thread is not a waste. It is highly important for GM to know there are Camaro customers worried about this issue and want answers. It's as simple as that. I don't agree with those who are staying quiet because they are protecting GM and I do not agree with those who want to quiet us down as you are. If it is causing an argument in order to get this thread locked, then all you end up doing is wasting all of our time here who actually want to see this resolved. So please, enough is enough and let us do our best to get to the bottom of this and get Gm's involvement as well which I'm sure will come at some point. Hopefully sooner than later.

It is a waste for jrhaus76, but I am getting a lot out of this thread.

And quite frankly, if I owned one of the questionable range of cars, I probably wouldn't be so calm calm about it.

Maybe I would:


1. Let it go, and just see if it breaks someday - you know, maybe after the warranty is expired...

2. Beat the hell out of it, minus wheel-hop, and see if it breaks when I expect it to, rather than when I am pulling out in front of traffic with my kids in the backseat.

Sudden, total drivetrain failure, IS a safety hazard. I'd be suing the hell outta the NEW GM, if mine broke and caused an accident.


3. Spend the money to install an upgraded output shaft, available in the aftermarket soon. Might as well put in axles with cv joints that don't explode too.

$$$$

GM does listen to us. Sometimes they just wait for the mass media to pick up on our feelings before they respond, that's all.

Burying this issue in the "forbidden zone" seems to be extending the issue though.

I've never seen another car forum, that hides issues in a back-room, seldom visited area.

[camarorick]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Royal Purple tranny fluid is known to help some. Just put the GM crap back in before warranty trans service.

Syncros may still break-in some.

May need another tranny.

At this point, I would almost be relieved if I did need a new tranny..... I hate to say it, but I have no confidence in the drive train :(