Camaro team's response to concern about Transmission Output Shaft Failure

[DkknightX]

Originally Posted by Rodrunner

My first thought after reading John's message was - you made this determination in July and you report the results to us in December? Then again, if no problem was found to exist, why report anything ever, especially if owner concern dies down...as the front caliper wheel weights issue did?

If I had an LS3 I wouldn't be worried. My respect for GM and it's execs continues to grow!

Continues to grow? Henderson was ousted and now Fitzpatrick releases a statement that says nothing 5 months too late. I was content to know that GM was mounting a comeback with their promotions, but all this sudden change in leadership and then statements by Fitzpatrick, restating the obvious completely changes the confidence and integrity landscape...again! Didn't GM just lay down the framework for reorganization and show the beginnings of stabilizing itself? Now is not the time to be making these changes folks. Let the dust settle and then make changes. Am I wrong?

GTAHVIT - I'm not personally attacking anybody, not even Henderson or Fitzpatrick, but if these posts are problematic or "charged," please delete them as you see fit. The last thing I want to do is cause more mischief. This is not my intent. I am sorry to anybody that sees it this way.

[Moriartii]

You know I have varying feeling regarding some things GM has done in the past. Despite those, I am most certainly getting a Camaro and I am highly impressed that they actively read our concerns via this forum and address them. I dont care who you are that has to say alot and is most impressive in my book.

Thank you GM
Cheers
Kinley

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by DkknightX

Continues to grow? Henderson was ousted and now Fitzpatrick releases a statement that says nothing 5 months too late. I was content to know that GM was mounting a comeback with their promotions, but all this sudden change in leadership and then statements by Fitzpatrick, restating the obvious completely changes the confidence and integrity landscape...again! Didn't GM just lay down the framework for reorganization and show the beginnings of stabilizing itself? Now is not the time to be making these changes folks. Let the dust settle and then make changes. Am I wrong?

GTAHVIT - I'm not personally attacking anybody, not even Henderson or Fitzpatrick, but if these posts are problematic or "charged," please delete them as you see fit. The last thing I want to do is cause more mischief. This is not my intent. I am sorry to anybody that sees it this way.

This is not an easy thread to moderate. I don't think you are attacking anyone. I do think you are questioning people's reactions, which to me does make it personal and they feel they have to defend themselves. Which can snowball into disrespectful posts.

But we want you to be able to express yourselves. You don't have to drink the GM koolaid to be a member here. So if you don't like what they say that's fine.

I guess I'd only ask that you state your opinions as your own and let others maintain their own without justifying it to you or anyone else.

You don't have to agree with everyone here. Nor should you challenge everyone you don't agree with either.

It's a subtle difference, I know. But it goes a long way to keep the peace.

[ITMerc]

While the 'public' release of info is certainly appreciated what I saw was a pretty standard industry reply to a potential warranty problem that seems to have limited safety implications. He admitted they saw a spike in reported failures, they looked into it and basically figured out, in my opinion, that it would cost them more money to issue a recall and FOR SURE have to spend a pile of cash fixing cars that may or may not ever actually break than the much smaller amount of money it MIGHT cost them to just sit on their hands and wait to fix the ones that actually do break. Standard cost/benefit risk analysis.

From reading the other threads it seems like a subcontractor had a parts run (or several in a given period of time) that resulted in shafts that fail at a higher rate than expected. GM most likely identified the affected VIN range and has gotten the manufacturing issue corrected with the subcontractor, but has also decided that its not cost effective to issue a recall and instead is willing to roll the dice and deal with them if they do fail on a case by case basis. Not bashing anyone here! Its pretty standard practice in almost ALL industries to do this kind of cost/benefit risk analysis.

Would it be nice to know if your car falls in the affected VIN range, SURE. But releasing that info would fan the fires probably causing the affected owners to demand a pre-emptive part replacement thereby costing GM more money (a defacto recall) than waiting for what would surely be a much smaller number of actual failures.

To me it simply means that IF my car experiences a shaft failure I have a pretty strong case to convince GM to fix it regardless of how the car was being driven. Its a 'Muscle Car'', drive it to enjoy it and as long as you do so with the respect due any piece of machinery you want to continue operating properly for its expected lifetime then you likely won't have any problems. If you DO have a problem, then take it to the dealership and get it fixed. If its a warranty issue then its on them, if NOT then its on you.

Do I LIKE the answer they gave... Not really. Do I UNDERSTAND it...I like to think so. Heh!

[carfansince73]

I think it's pretty cool someone as high as Mr. Fitzpatrick addressed our concerns directly. Does it make me feel better? A little I guess. I would just ask that GM take each output shaft failure on a case by case basis, even if the car has forced induction, a cam, or whatever and the VIN is one lower than 25K. To just deny any claim because the powertrain has been modified doesn't seem fair to me because as many know here, there are a lot of members who have have LOTS of power and are not breaking. If you take two s/c'd cars to a track with like equipment and the same driver and one breaks and the other doesn't. I'd wager the broken one got a defective shaft, and GM should replace the tranny. Again this is just my opinion.

Also, I've said this before many times. Tremec made the defective units so why the heck doesn't GM get their money back from them, both for the cost of the replacement transmission and the associated labor. It would seem that Tremec would LOVE for this to happen because having their name in the same sentence with broken transmissions can't be good for business. Having owners say the trans was defective but was replaced with a good unit would make many happy and look good for GM and Tremec. What's that saying, a happy customer tells 5 people, an unhappy one tells 10. Something like that anyway.

Thanks to the Mods and their connections for bringing our concerns to GM.

[DkknightX]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

This is not an easy thread to moderate. I don't think you are attacking anyone. I do think you are questioning people's reactions, which to me does make it personal and they feel they have to defend themselves. Which can snowball into disrespectful posts.

But we want you to be able to express yourselves. You don't have to drink the GM koolaid to be a member here. So if you don't like what they say that's fine.

I guess I'd only ask that you state your opinions as your own and let others maintain their own without justifying it to you or anyone else.

You don't have to agree with everyone here. Nor should you challenge everyone you don't agree with either.

It's a subtle difference, I know. But it goes a long way to keep the peace.

Thanks for the clarification GTAHVIT! Yeah, there is definitely a gray area here. I've said my peace though and I love GM BTW. This car really could be positively pivotal in GM's reawakening but how it is used concerns me. I've done my best not to challenge members as most know better than I do, but the camshaft safety issue worries me. I fear for my wife and my own life and I definitely need to speak up with how GM addresses this and any information from their investigation would certainly provide more credibility from Fitzpatrick besides being assured the car is safe. If the car has issues, all I ask is for real information about what is going on. No personal attacks or anything.

[CamaroScotty]

I believe there was a similar statement MONTHS ago...by Scott. I have a statement in my mailbox 11/19, because someone asked me recently.

I would expect a similar response from ANY car company...well, except for maybe Toyota - then it would more than likely be denied.

[2010SLVRBULIT]

"below tolerance" is unacceptable.."within tolerable specs" is better verbage...

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by HashimAzzouz

Guys!! this is very relaxing for the US customers!! What about customers outside the US!! If the transmission breaks down it gonna take months and months until they fix it!! I don't find this answer helpful by anyway!!!! :(

Why wouild it be any different? If it breaks your local GM dealer should fix it under warranty.

[johncaye]

I thought I read somewhere that there were some bad batches of steel identified as the problem with just certain batches of the shafts. Some of the raw material was deficient and that they had identified which units had those bad output shafts. That the problem was limited to just those units. Or am I dreaming it was that simple?

[TJ91]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Seems pretty straight forward to me. If it breaks GM will fix it. As it should be. Chances are your not gonna break.

Now lets move on!

[D1BADZ]

Originally Posted by DkknightX

Nothing was explained and I'm sorry, this was more a statement from a politician than anything else. Dragoneye, I'm sorry man, did you gather any earth-shattering information from what Fitzpatrick spoke of? I'm not trying to be malicious or confrontational. Hell, it doesn't even apply to me with 2700 miles on my car and no shaft problems. I feel for those that it does involve but he really should not have made a statement unless he was prepared to technically address what the problem(s) are. Plus this insults the intelligence and hard work put in by that C5 member that had his own solution PROPOSED to GM about the output shaft problem. What's worse is that he released the statement to C5 directly and didn't think to consider how many people knew more about the issue than he does! Members here know more about their cars than the GM brass and that is NOT a good thing!

I almost got the impression that they are aware of the problem, not looking for a resolution and instead of researching the issue, they find it more cost effective to wait until output shafts break and then just repair them on a case by case basis. If it is cheaper, I guess it makes sense, but at least say so, but as you guys have stated earlier, this line of thinking is going to get people killed before they focus more on the problem before it has a chance to claim lives.

+1

[REAPER SS]

The way I see it is, for those who have the 2010 Camaro you have 5 years to beat your car up under warranty, after that its on you

[D1BADZ]

also closing all the other output shaft threads seems a bit uncalled for, even if you did sticky this one to converse about. Closing threads just adds fuel to the fire showing that "someone" does not want you talking about it. I hope this site doesnt start getting like some sites...................