Mustangs................

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by 2SSARME

They have since 2005..... Mustangs are a perfect way to look at the future of the camaro.... So yeah... sales aren't going to slip dramatically as you all are predicting.... in 5 years we'll be looking at camaro's like we are looking at mustangs currently..

I am not saying anything different. I was talking about 0% financing, and yes, the mustang has had 0% financing every model year since its introduction at some point.

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by 2SSARME

Well I see sales staying as they are up until summer.. And I have a feeling when 0% financing is offered sales will jump even higher....

That's the point of incentives...
Glad we are on the same page. The camaro is not incentive proof.
And, as for everyone on this forum who thinks I hate camaros, I don't. and I think if 0% financing were to be offered on the camaro, it would most likely be my next car.

[SWAT 79]

Originally Posted by 2SSARME

Pretty sure it would be half the world's next car haha

Haha, i love the new camaros, but it was the fact that they wouldn't negotiate at all, that led me over to a ford dealer to order a 2010 gt for the price of a camaro lt. Don't get me wrong, i don't regret getting a mustang over a camaro (i prefer fords interior and the price, but i'd kill for the ls3), but i know I'm gonna need a cai and tune to run the same times as a camaro.

[BowtieGuy]

Well, in a foolish attempt to steer the thread back on track...

If the rumored 5.0 isn't going to have direct injection, I for one do not believe it will achieve 400hp, even with a dual overhead cam system. If it does, it will be at a very high RPM, so expect torque to suffer more. Considering the market they are selling to though, that would be dumb.

My perspective on it is that if they do try to stuff enough tech into this engine to hit high power numbers, it will probably drive cost up. Which in the real world is where decisions are made anyhow. Since I was right on with my power predictions for the 2010 refresh, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Mustang will gain over 200lbs and not top 385hp. I just don't see it going further than that. A 400hp Mustang would cost too much more than a Camaro, and that just isn't Ford's M.O.

[Black GT]

A little inside info: recently Ford did a private track rental@ Rockingham raceway to test the 2011's
The 2011 GT code name (Coyote) weighed in at 3585lbs.with driver and was trapping 113-115 MPH
The GT500 code name (roadrunner) weighed in at 3875 with driver and was trapping 126-128 MPH

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by BowtieGuy

Well, in a foolish attempt to steer the thread back on track...

If the rumored 5.0 isn't going to have direct injection, I for one do not believe it will achieve 400hp, even with a dual overhead cam system. If it does, it will be at a very high RPM, so expect torque to suffer more. Considering the market they are selling to though, that would be dumb.

My perspective on it is that if they do try to stuff enough tech into this engine to hit high power numbers, it will probably drive cost up. Which in the real world is where decisions are made anyhow. Since I was right on with my power predictions for the 2010 refresh, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Mustang will gain over 200lbs and not top 385hp. I just don't see it going further than that. A 400hp Mustang would cost too much more than a Camaro, and that just isn't Ford's M.O.

I think your weight gains are too much. The chassis gained less than 140 lbs (the V6 went from 3400 to 'still under 3500' with 40 lbs less engine), I don't know how it would be possible for the GT to gain 200. And 385 hp sounds about right for an upper limit on what Ford would do without DI, thats 77 hp/L which is a nice comfortable number for a manufacturer these days. It won't require anything too exotic or expensive and won't easily be overstressed to the point of failure. Of high performance, good reliability, and low cost ... pick two.

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I think your weight gains are too much. The chassis gained less than 140 lbs (the V6 went from 3400 to 'still under 3500' with 40 lbs less engine), I don't know how it would be possible for the GT to gain 200. And 385 hp sounds about right for an upper limit on what Ford would do without DI, thats 77 hp/L which is a nice comfortable number for a manufacturer these days. It won't require anything too exotic or expensive and won't easily be overstressed to the point of failure. Of high performance, good reliability, and low cost ... pick two.

I understand your 77hp/L, but talking purely from a marketing standpoint, why would Ford make a 380hp v8 when there is a lighter, 305hp v6? The last v6 and v8 differed by 105hp, I would expect a linearity to remain...

[KarFan]

Originally Posted by Black GT

A little inside info: recently Ford did a private track rental@ Rockingham raceway to test the 2011's
The 2011 GT code name (Coyote) weighed in at 3585lbs.with driver and was trapping 113-115 MPH
The GT500 code name (roadrunner) weighed in at 3875 with driver and was trapping 126-128 MPH

Interesting info. Those weights seem very low for race weight. Ford would have had to cut weight from the 2010's or have a 90lb jockey do the driving.
Trap speeds seem very high especially on the GT500.

[305pride]

[returnofcc]

Originally Posted by Black GT

A little inside info: recently Ford did a private track rental@ Rockingham raceway to test the 2011's
The 2011 GT code name (Coyote) weighed in at 3585lbs.with driver and was trapping 113-115 MPH
The GT500 code name (roadrunner) weighed in at 3875 with driver and was trapping 126-128 MPH

Those are some ridiculous trap numbers. The gt500 will be almost as fast as a zr1?

[Black GT]

Originally Posted by KarFan

Interesting info. Those weights seem very low for race weight. Ford would have had to cut weight from the 2010's or have a 90lb jockey do the driving.
Trap speeds seem very high especially on the GT500.

I'm sure these were some "Test Mules" and would expect them to be 50-100 lbs. lighter than production cars.

[BowtieGuy]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I think your weight gains are too much. The chassis gained less than 140 lbs (the V6 went from 3400 to 'still under 3500' with 40 lbs less engine), I don't know how it would be possible for the GT to gain 200.

If I were generous id say no less than 180, but a six speed and (if they're smart) a decent IRS will tack on the extra poundage.

[BowtieGuy]

Originally Posted by Black GT

I'm sure these were some "Test Mules" and would expect them to be 50-100 lbs. lighter than production cars.

I was just about to say there's no way those cars were production trim.

[KoTToN]

Originally Posted by 2SSARME

lol that picture says it all