THE HEADER SIZE DEBATE WILL BE SETTLED ONCE AND FOR ALL - Page 7 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

*KILLER74Z28* · 01-17-2010, 10:14 AM

Awesome... Can't wait for the results...

the rich dude · 01-17-2010, 10:56 AM

Great test Ted!! What I'm really wanting to see is the test with a supercharger. I think the 1 7/8 headers will win in that test

Russell James · 01-17-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the rich dude

Great test Ted!! What I'm really wanting to see is the test with a supercharger. I think the 1 7/8 headers will win in that test

That back to back testing was done a few times in the Corvette world on some SC'd LS3 vettes. No diff noticed other than a couple hp which could be debated as normal variation. I did see some comments where some decent gains were seen on an LS9 ZR1 going to a bigger header size. But that is dealing with over 600 hp, and at that level it appeared to really like the 1 7/8s over the 1 3/4.

I'm guessing it's going to be a toss up on the stock LS3 between 1 3/4 or 1 7/8s. Probably can't go wrong on either, pick your favorite brand.

It would be really neat to see once the ideal size is picked, then do a back to back test with a 2 1/2" axle back vs a 3" axle back. Both coming off a 3" x pipe.

I'm wondering if the a stock LS3 does just fine with the 1 7/8's header, if it then will prefer a hair more back pressure and velocity of a 2 1/2" muffler set up. Some swear it does. I'm hoping not, I like the deaper sounds of some of the 3" systems but don't want to lose any tq under the curve.

COBRA CAMANDER · 01-17-2010, 12:55 PM

Yeah, I'd like to see the cat back test too. It is amazing how many variations there can be to the originally proposed tests. Good luck Ted!

JANNETTYRACING · 01-17-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwt18

If we really wanted to put an end to this debacle, could the rest of the exhaust not just be left out? Or, just do a run before connecting the rest of the exhaust after each set of headers is installed. This would give us 2 data sets and a way to extrapolate how each size header would 'play' with a less restrictive exhaust.

Then let's add another variable to the testing!... Now our test matrix looks like this:
1 3/4" No catback exhaust w/o tune
1 3/4" No catback exhaust w/ tune
1 3/4" OEM catback exhaust w/o tune
1 3/4" OEM catback exhaust w/ tune

1 7/8" No catback exhaust w/o tune
1 7/8" No catback exhaust w/ tune
1 7/8" OEM catback exhaust w/o tune
1 7/8" OEM catback exhaust w/ tune

2" No catback exhaust w/o tune
2" No catback exhaust w/ tune
2" OEM catback exhaust w/o tune
2" OEM catback exhaust w/ tune

This involves 12 independent tests. IMO, installing a few tunes and doing a few extra dyno pulls wouldn't take half as long as removing and reinstalling each set of headers.

This is science, it's an iterative process... live and learn.. But, I think it should be given a full effort.

These are just my opinions and it's not my test. I did not and would not sign up for such a task as I've outlined. My main point is that if a sound scientific approach is used, the results will be hard to argue with. Good luck, Ted!

I think we can narrow it down some by eliminating any Open Exhaust testing since No One Really will Care about it since the Masses will not be riding aroung with Open exhaust.

Also the Tuning should be left Stock as it will keep the results consistant.

We will be testing with and without cats though, even though my experience tells me there is no difference I need the Proof to back it up on this particular car.

Just a Side Note we did test Cutouts with Headers/High flow cats, and there was absolutely NO difference in power, A/F or Torque, cutouts were after the cats.

Thank you all for your Support, Ted.

grocerygetter · 01-17-2010, 10:13 PM

I've got a question...I was talking to a friend that has access to a dynojet and a superflo dyno for tuning. The superflos are spot on consistent...especially since you can load the dyno/car. Dynojets have a hew hp variables between pulls. How many pulls do you guys do on stuff like this? I enjoyed the air intake tests for sure...and I'm looking forward to this as well.

mr_desmo · 01-18-2010, 12:40 AM

Ted goes a t it again cant wait!

*TAG UR IT* · 01-18-2010, 02:27 AM

Cool...look forward to the results!

*Mindz* · 01-18-2010, 02:50 AM

I'm interested in results also. When I finally get headers, I'll have even more information.

ADM PERFORMANCE · 01-18-2010, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS

I am anxiously watching this. Subscribed. Thanks Ted for what you do.

AND WHAT SIZE HEADERS DO YOU HAVE ON YOUR STOCK LS3?

AND HOW MUCH POWER AND TORQUE DID YOU MAKE?

I know the answer and I know how TEDS test will end up!

Glad to see someone else stepping up to the plate and doing this test...We did it months back,was very interesting to say the least.

Andy

JANNETTYRACING · 01-18-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

I've got a question...I was talking to a friend that has access to a dynojet and a superflo dyno for tuning. The superflos are spot on consistent...especially since you can load the dyno/car. Dynojets have a hew hp variables between pulls. How many pulls do you guys do on stuff like this? I enjoyed the air intake tests for sure...and I'm looking forward to this as well.

On the LS3 typically 3 runs per change gives me excellent repeatable results as long as everyting is fully up to tempurature.

I posted a Thread a month or so back on how I gained 14 RWHP changing Nothing on an L99 Car, it took 6 pulls to stabalize the numbers when we pulled in from the street and strapped it down.

I need at least 2 back to back Identical pulls before I am satisified the numbers are accurate then I will do One more just to see and they usually repeat with in 1 HP.

While doing all this I closely monitor Oil and Water Temps and start all my Pulls at 194 Water Temp.

Ted.

Black LS3 · 01-22-2010, 01:21 AM

Pretty Exciting Stuff,...

Anythnig New to Report?

JANNETTYRACING · 01-22-2010, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black LS3

Pretty Exciting Stuff,...

Anythnig New to Report?

Our Test Car was Dropped off Last Night, still waiting on ARH headers in 1 7/8 and 2 inch.

Ted.

tjbusa · 01-22-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Our Test Car was Dropped off Last Night, still waiting on ARH headers in 1 7/8 and 2 inch.

Ted.

So you will start with the 1 3/4 today?

01-17-2010, 10:14 AM	#85
KILLER74Z28 MOD SQUAD Drives: 2G1FT1EW9A9100666 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: West Michigan Posts: 5,768 View My Garage	Awesome... Can't wait for the results... __________________ Who cares about the Blue Oval crowd and their little Ponys? We're getting our Camaro back-and it'll be Supercharged!-MDAII Team LS3

01-17-2010, 10:13 PM	#90
grocerygetter instigator Drives: 2020 6.2 Trail Boss, 2022 XC90 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: 72034 Posts: 3,979 View My Garage	I've got a question...I was talking to a friend that has access to a dynojet and a superflo dyno for tuning. The superflos are spot on consistent...especially since you can load the dyno/car. Dynojets have a hew hp variables between pulls. How many pulls do you guys do on stuff like this? I enjoyed the air intake tests for sure...and I'm looking forward to this as well. __________________ -John S.

01-18-2010, 02:50 AM	#93
Mindz E.B.A.H. Drives: you wild... Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In the happy padded room wearing a jacket that makes me hug myself... Posts: 18,420	I'm interested in results also. When I finally get headers, I'll have even more information. __________________ Blue Rush, 2010 SS [Car of the Week 3/22/2010] Traded in on...ZLZBUBB, 2013 ZL1

01-22-2010, 01:21 AM	#96
Black LS3 Drives: 2010 Black 2SS LS3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Cape Coral, Florida Lets Ride. Posts: 128 View My Garage	Pretty Exciting Stuff,... Anythnig New to Report? __________________ OnlineAutorama.US - A Camaro Parts/Accessories Site for Dealers & Vendors. Muffler Delete. ( See Videos - Vid 1. - Vid 2. ) Stock Resonators & H-Pipe Removed. Magnaflow 2.50" Tru-X X-Pipe. AirAid Cold Air Intake System. 11.21.09 1100 Order Accepted At Dealer - 11.24.09 2000 Accepted At GM - 11.25.09 2500 Preferenced - 12.03.09 3000 Production Control Notes: 01/11/2010 - 12.17.09 3400 Order Broadcast - 01.13.10 3800 Order Produced VIN # 2G1FT1E - 01.25.10 4000 Available to Ship from Rail Yard by Truck - 01.27.10 5000 Delivered to the Dealership - 01-27-10 6000 Delivered to Customer.

01-17-2010, 10:56 AM	#86
the rich dude Drives: Getting 2010 Camaro Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,149	Great test Ted!! What I'm really wanting to see is the test with a supercharger. I think the 1 7/8 headers will win in that test

01-17-2010, 12:55 PM	#88
COBRA CAMANDER Drives: 2010 camaro SS Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portsmouth VA Posts: 172 View My Garage	Yeah, I'd like to see the cat back test too. It is amazing how many variations there can be to the originally proposed tests. Good luck Ted!

01-18-2010, 12:40 AM	#91
mr_desmo Banned Drives: beated up old mini austin Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: north pole Posts: 440	Ted goes a t it again cant wait!

01-18-2010, 02:27 AM	#92
TAG UR IT www.Camaro5store.com Drives: 2014 ZL1 #705 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: SA, Texas Posts: 26,544 View My Garage	Cool...look forward to the results!