POLL: What type of FI would you choose?

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by Jchaluja

Twin Turbos for me.....I have trashed my dyno sheet, the proof is at the track....I daily drive my car in traffic, rain, sun, etc and drive to the track all the time and make decent runs and drive back.

FI is good anyways, either go the s/c route or turbo route.....I just feel that all my car has is the twin turbos, corsa, tune and that's it, nothing else (cam, headers, cai, etc), so it's simple.

Have you put it on the rollers? A turbo kit, even twins, is simple. Instead of dealing with a water pump and the electronics for it, you have to deal with a BOV and WG which are just two valves that work on pressure/vacuum.

[Pope Designs]

Pro Charger Rocks The House!

[obzidian]

Of course it does...

Care to elaborate?

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Mike@KB

I choose this.......

@Mike, is this the 3.8LC?

[axis]

Turbo, and single at that. Easily upgradeable, GREAT linear power and tq curve. Great driveablity. Doesn't use power to make power. Cheap to rebuild.

Twin turbo's, like twin hotties, are for show. Singles are cheaper upfront, cheaper to upgrade, and less hassles with all the damn lines. They still make as much HP as twins as well. Victory Racing's T72 or T76 (forget which) made 600+whp with just 7 or 8psi and was at 500 tq by 3800rpm.

[obzidian]

Right. VRE's T76 made over 560rwhp at around 8-9psi and had tons of torque to get this heavy car moving.

But, I must disagree about the twins. That maybe your opinion, and that is fine, but twins, when built specifically for a twin setup, will produce a powerband that a big single cannot reproduce because of a few reasons. Remember, two smaller turbo's making 500rwhp each, when paired, hypothetically and being very, very... VERY general here.... will now make 1000rwhp.. they stack.

Let say you want to acheive a grand total of 1200rwhp. (Not bad, right? ) Now, lets just focus on the turbo's and leave everything else as a constant... no variables will matter except how the turbo's are acting during the powerband their peak power values.


soooo.... 1200rwhp. Ok:

Setup A.

376ci (ls3) with a big single making 1200rwhp at 7k rpms.

Setup B.

Same motor, smaller twins making 1200rwhp at 7k rpms.


Basically, both motors are making the same kind of power and, by default, setup A will be lighter (not much) because it only has to plumb for one turbo, not two. So, they should be about the same in performance with a slight advantage, at this point, going to the single because of a sliiiiight weight advantage. HOWEVER, the powerband of the single will be very different than to the one with the single.

Let say you have a heavy car (camaro weighs just about 3800lbs... so that is heavy for a true racecar!!) You want to get that pig moving, right? But you also want to make some sick power! (1200rwhp) The big single can get it done, however, due to the size of the turbo, the motor will have to spin more rpms to spool that ONE big turbo thus yielding a powerband much different than a motor having to spool two smaller turbo's in order to make the same kind of power. KEY!

so, again, being hypothetical, the peak values are at:

Single: rwhp at 7000rpms & RWTRQ. at 4800rpms.
Twins: rwhp at 7000rpms & RWTRQ. at 3800rpms.

(These are values used to prove a point)

So, if you wanted to have a smoother power deliver and enough trq. down low to get a big heavy car moving then I , IMO, would rather have a twin setup because of the broader powerband and less likely hood of massive backpressure in front of the turbos. Also, that broader powerband, not a potentially peaky band, will not over power the tires as hard as a sudden surge of power... again, you want a linear power band unless you like that nitrous-like hit of power.

Thus, twins have their part in the game and it all comes down to what you want YOUR SETUP to feel/drive like. Twins are not just for show.... they can make some sick power.... look at some of the REALLY fast 10.5 DR cars.... have you ever seen what a pair of thumper-sized 101mm's can do to a dyno?

[obzidian]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

@Mike, is this the 3.8LC?

Well, given that their new charger needs the front end of the blower cooled due to the massive heat differences between the front of the case and the rear, then it might be.... this one has two lines going to the front of the case.

[Legend]

I went with the Maggie...it's a simple design, makes great HP for daily driving and a weekend track car from time to time.

Simple to install, easy maintenance, looks gorgeous sitting there on top of the LS3, doesn't take away from anything as far as looks go under there either...I'm running the "stock" tune on mine.

Yes, different set ups can make for more HP but honestly...I can spin the tires at 40 mph now......so while I understand everyone seems to want a system that can grow to more and more HP, I'm not sure for a daily driver how much more HP the car would need?

I love my TVS2300...exactly what I wanted...actually, it's twice the fun I thought it would be...very happy with my supercharged Camaro SS!

[radz28]

Legend makes a great point, at least for me, in that all the power in the world is great, but it's no good if you can't use it. That's one of the reasons knowing what your expectations are are going to be among the most important things. If you know you're going to be scared to drive a 600 RWHP car, then why build one up with that much power? Why buy parts that will make that much power? I think that's pretty much my limit and the way that gets me there the most reliably, and efficiently will be the way I'd go.

JMVHO.

[Gotthat02fire]

Maggie all the way lots of room for upgrading gotta love that!!!!

[Jchaluja]

Originally Posted by 2010ssraper

What turbo setup do you have?? Sounds nice and simple!
What times do you run at the track?

APS style, Twin Precision 5862B Turbochargers.
My best run has been 11.30 @125 mph, I have been running under 11.5 secs 1/4 consistently. That's with 7 lbs of boost.

[Jchaluja]

Originally Posted by obzidian

Have you put it on the rollers? A turbo kit, even twins, is simple. Instead of dealing with a water pump and the electronics for it, you have to deal with a BOV and WG which are just two valves that work on pressure/vacuum.

Yes, 545 rwhp and 545 torque....

[Jchaluja]

Originally Posted by obzidian

Right. VRE's T76 made over 560rwhp at around 8-9psi and had tons of torque to get this heavy car moving.

But, I must disagree about the twins. That maybe your opinion, and that is fine, but twins, when built specifically for a twin setup, will produce a powerband that a big single cannot reproduce because of a few reasons. Remember, two smaller turbo's making 500rwhp each, when paired, hypothetically and being very, very... VERY general here.... will now make 1000rwhp.. they stack.

Let say you want to acheive a grand total of 1200rwhp. (Not bad, right? ) Now, lets just focus on the turbo's and leave everything else as a constant... no variables will matter except how the turbo's are acting during the powerband their peak power values.


soooo.... 1200rwhp. Ok:

Setup A.

376ci (ls3) with a big single making 1200rwhp at 7k rpms.

Setup B.

Same motor, smaller twins making 1200rwhp at 7k rpms.


Basically, both motors are making the same kind of power and, by default, setup A will be lighter (not much) because it only has to plumb for one turbo, not two. So, they should be about the same in performance with a slight advantage, at this point, going to the single because of a sliiiiight weight advantage. HOWEVER, the powerband of the single will be very different than to the one with the single.

Let say you have a heavy car (camaro weighs just about 3800lbs... so that is heavy for a true racecar!!) You want to get that pig moving, right? But you also want to make some sick power! (1200rwhp) The big single can get it done, however, due to the size of the turbo, the motor will have to spin more rpms to spool that ONE big turbo thus yielding a powerband much different than a motor having to spool two smaller turbo's in order to make the same kind of power. KEY!

so, again, being hypothetical, the peak values are at:

Single: rwhp at 7000rpms & RWTRQ. at 4800rpms.
Twins: rwhp at 7000rpms & RWTRQ. at 3800rpms.

(These are values used to prove a point)

So, if you wanted to have a smoother power deliver and enough trq. down low to get a big heavy car moving then I , IMO, would rather have a twin setup because of the broader powerband and less likely hood of massive backpressure in front of the turbos. Also, that broader powerband, not a potentially peaky band, will not over power the tires as hard as a sudden surge of power... again, you want a linear power band unless you like that nitrous-like hit of power.

Thus, twins have their part in the game and it all comes down to what you want YOUR SETUP to feel/drive like. Twins are not just for show.... they can make some sick power.... look at some of the REALLY fast 10.5 DR cars.... have you ever seen what a pair of thumper-sized 101mm's can do to a dyno?

I can confirm that twins are NOT for show

[Kyle2k]

Nitrous?