some thoughts about the camaro...a new yorkers point of view

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by ucla1ove3

he's a sports car fan, don't hate.

Price....such a touchy subject. For some, they expected it. For others, it was waaaay off. I don't think the V6 price is all that bad. The SS price....could be better. But, I was also hoping for 29 starting.


Oh, and 8,000 posts!!!

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by 06stalliongt

look this thread is jumpin in alot of directions in my opinion this is what chevy should have done...[
camaro v6 or w/ RS...comes with a similar motor thats in the g6 gxp 3.6 250hp 251ft lb
base price: 21,500
w/ rs $23,500

camaro z28 similar looking to the ss but with stripes and decals in true Z28 fashion with a more modern 5.7L 350 w/the cylinder deactivation similar to the monte ss in 2008(for those whore are concerned bout gas) and some of the options that are avail on the ss
base price: $ 26,000- 29,000(w/all options)

and finally the ss: the way it is now

this would seem more resonable and it would give a buyer more choices....this is my opinion and i dnt care what everyones will say im not here to win a popularity contest just tryin vent...im in no way a ford guy yes i did own a mustang gt but ive also had 2 trans ams n 1 IROC Z n i now have a chevy avalanche...im a camaro enthusiast like everyone else on here n i just want to see this car done rite heritage is very impt these days!!

there are only so many engines that gm has in the livery and none are 5.7, the next smaller size from the 6.2 would be a 6.0l L76 which is in the G8 gt. not alot of money saved per engine for alot less engine and alot more overhead in the factory for having 3 engine options.

[Tal]

Originally Posted by kylepo

your right price does sell cars thats why you can get a 300 hp camaro for $22,545 and a 300 hp mustang for $26,775 and the $22,545 car has more content

Yes in this comparison the Mustang is still faster but the V6 Camaro is competitive while the Mustang GT simply can't compare to the performance of Camaro SS.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Craig

LOL

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Thats the problem is we arn't comparing cars.. we are comparing business models.

Ford looked at the market.. RWD 2 door coupes and said " we will make the cheapest fun, good looking car we can" and did it. THATS why they have sold 6 digits for the last 3 years (08 sales have dropped).

GM looked and said "WE CAN DO THAT" and turned around and made a GREAT CAR that because of content is priced to high. NOW the business model has changed from making a good looking fun car to "lets make the best in class and charge appropriately and expect it to sell like the cheap car".

And in business school this doesn't fly...

PS I am NOT saying the camaro is a bad deal, I am saying the business model isn't going to net the mustang numbers and the reasons why.

You're completely wrong.

I can name MANY instances where overpriced inferior products outsold and ultimately KILLED their lower priced and significantly BETTER competitors. How was this done? Pure marketing, and nothing else.

Thanks to slick marketing we're stuck using IBM PC Compatible computers running Microsoft operating systems and watching Blue Ray movies in HD, when we could have had a lot better stuff only cheaper.

So, building a cheaper mousetrap has little to do with sales success, in spite of the fact your mousetrap is as good or even better....

[fierodeletre]

Captain Awesome, sir. (sorry, couldn't help it. ) So many people overlook marketing's power, which is exactly why marketing is SO powerful. Well said.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

Uh, the Mustang GT will outperform the V6 Camaro all day long. I'm not a Mustang fan, but people who were expecting their fully loaded V6 to come in at a 24k price and their fully loaded V8s to start at 30k were out of their minds. The car will out perform the Mustang and the Challenger.


It amazes me that someone would say the Camaro needs two different V8 models like the Dodge and Mustang. 1SS 2SS anyone? There's one with the less plush interior that will do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds. Then there's one that will ALSO do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and has leather and a few more options. It's a great deal. You pay for more interior options, but you get the same performance. You get all around better performance than the Mustang, and you can get comparable performance in the Challenger but for 40k as opposed to 32 or so.

The Mustang offers a V8 with 300hp that will do 0-60 in 5.1 seconds and for 32k it'll have leather and everything you want. For 3k more you'll get the better suspension and chassis of the Camaro with leather as well. Not to mention another 122hp. That's not unreasonable if you ask me.


People who are saying this pricing is too high and that GM screwed everything up by pricing it so high and that Ford and Dodge did it right are out of their freaking minds. Or maybe they're just butthurt because they hoped for the Camaro to be 28k fully loaded. Idiots.

The Dodge for example: You can get a R/T that comes stripped down, does 0-60 in 5.2 seconds or so and a mid 13 second 1/4 mile for 30k. With options that price can skyrocket to 39k and that price comes with no extra performance. You can get the SRT-8 model which starts at 40k and comes well equipped. For a few grand more you can get all options. The Camaro will be faster and better made than either of those and be cheaper in a performance per dollar aspect as well as performance per luxury aspect too.

^Is that a good deal?

The Camaro will be 35-36k very well equipped. Better deal than the Dodge.

V8 Camaro with great engine, brakes and suspension: 31k

V8 Mustang with lesser engine, brakes and suspension: 29k

V8 Challenger with lesser engine, brakes and suspension: 30k

Camaro with Leather and previously mentioned performance:35k

Mustang comparably equipped: 32-33k

Challenger comparably equipped 40k (!!!)

breaking it down like that should put it in perspective for a lot of people.

The Camaro is the best deal period. It's unfortunate that not everyone can afford it, but that's the way things are. People will always look to spend as little as possible.

And whoever said a Muscle car by definition has a eye-catching interior hasn't seen the last gen mustang and camaro. That's never been a Muscle Cars strongsuit. It's only been a few years since the Mustang has had an even tolerable interior and it obviously sets the bar since it's the first example in the class.

A fully loaded Chally R/T comes in at $36,965.....not trying to hear that

Yes it is slower than the maro

For what the camaro's worth, I alot of people is questioning the quality of the maro

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by fierodeletre

Captain Awesome, sir. (sorry, couldn't help it. ) So many people overlook marketing's power, which is exactly why marketing is SO powerful. Well said.

Marketing (or lack thereof) pretty much killed the 4th Generation cars.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

Marketing (or lack thereof) pretty much killed the 4th Generation cars.

+ 100000000 - Scott and I got in an hour long email debate over this one afew years ago.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Hylton

+ 100000000 - Scott and I got in an hour long email debate over this one afew years ago.

"FBodfather" Scott?

Man, I hope he wasn't defending the 4th Generation Marketing!

Please clarify!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

"FBodfather" Scott?

Man, I hope he wasn't defending the 4th Generation Marketing!

Please clarify!

Yes and yes. We agreed to disagree.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Yes and yes. We agreed to disagree.

I like Fbodfather, but on this issue I think he's too "close" to the topic and doesn't see it the way the average consumer does. The 4th gens were miles better than their competitors and marketing ruined the sales.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Captain Awesome

I like Fbodfather, but on this issue I think he's too "close" to the topic and doesn't see it the way the average consumer does. The 4th gens were miles better than their competitors and marketing ruined the sales.

You and I are going to get along just fine......

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by Muscle Master

A fully loaded Chally R/T comes in at $36,965.....not trying to hear that

Yes it is slower than the maro

For what the camaro's worth, I alot of people is questioning the quality of the maro

the rt is way out gunned feature wise and performance wise. essentially bringing a toothpick to a gun fight. the comparable Challenger is 40k nuff said.

also i know alot of you have probably heard me talk about dave smith motors, they are the largest dodge dealer in the world by volume and the largest GM dealer in the Northwest. talking to a sales manager i was told that they are moving away from dodge products because of thier lack of quality and focusing more on the GM products. i think that speaks volums right there.