Hotchkis Track Day proves "After" is much better than "Before" - AutoBlog.com

[Sean@Phastek]

Check out this great article about the Hotchkis Suspension kit for the 2010 Camaro SS:

Suspension tuner John Hotchkis, principle of Hotchkis Sport Suspension and apparently at peace with the fact that we broke his precious E-Max, invited yours truly out to the Streets of Willow to pound some more hard fought miles into the amazing yellow 1971 Dodge Challenger. Actually, a whole bunch of people were on hand to do the pounding, and not just on the E-Max. Hotchkis was putting on a before-and-after clinic to showcase (and show off) a couple of its suspension packages. Not only was the mighty, heavily tweaked E-Max on hand, but the Hotchkis gang brought along a fairly stock 1970 Challenger, a rented Chevrolet Camaro SS and a Camaro SS that had been given the full Hotchkis suspension treatment.

The Plan: Put each car in the more-than-capable hands of John's brother, Mark Hotchkis, a former Indy Lights driver who also happens to campaign a Porsche 962 in vintage races. Each car would be put through a series of tests (slalom, skid pad and a lap of the track itself) revealing numerically just how much better the new Hotchkis suspension pieces worked. They also brought a few of us journalist types along to not only see viva la difference, but share our impressions with the world/you guys. But before we get to the results...

And for the before-after comparison on the Camaro:

Back to the suspension challenge at hand. First up for me was the 426-hp Chevrolet Camaro SS that Hotchkis wound up renting when a friend of theirs with a bone stock 2010 Camaro SS backed out last minute. Sorry to disagree with P.J. O'Rourke, but this particular Camaro (we'll call it the Red Pig) disproved his assertion that the best handling car is a rental car. Honestly, I was more than a little shocked at how poorly the Camaro SS performed under the circumstances. In fact, let's go with massively disappointed. From ABS shudder that came on surprisingly early in the lousy brake pedal's travel to a looser rear end than Kim Kardashian, it become clear that the latest Camaro upheld the model's straight line-only legacy. Also, I managed to put a wheel in the dirt while driving the Camaro. It was either spin out of control fighting the rear end's refusal to play nice, or get the car dirty. To get an idea of how clumsy the Camaro is, even in the Mini – with five seasons of track time on its tire's well-worn rubber – I kept it on the pavement at all times.



Next up was the Hotchkis-tuned Camaro SS. What a difference a chassis brace makes. Well, a chassis brace, sport springs, front and rear sway bars (the rear one is adjustable), poly bushings and mounts. Almost magically the black Camaro proved how good a 426-hp LS3 can be when given a solid platform to work with. Instead of a skittish, all-over-the-track rear end with loads of wheel hop, I was treated to predictable oversteer and much smoother braking, which allowed even a ham-fisted driver like me to make it around the track without sending up any dust devils. But never mind what I did, check out what Mark Hotchkis was able to accomplish. In the Red Pig, Mark recorded 0.85 g on the skid pad, 67.1 mph through the slalom and a 1.15.157 lap time. In the Hotchkis-tuned Camaro his numbers improved to 0.88 g, 69.2 mph and 1.13.490. Big gains, especially considering the fully stock motor. [Please Note: The stock Camaro numbers were recorded in a different, not-pictured, privately owned stock Camaro SS that we didn't drive. From Hotchkis, "the stock Camaro that was tested for before numbers [is a] blue manual SS, exact same car and mileage as the black "after" car. The red car was just there for additional driving impressions."]

Here is a link to the complete article at AutoBlog.com, with more writeup and pictures!

[jtzako]

Problem with the rentals is they arent necessarily the same car. They often custom order rentals and leave out things that a normal customer would have no option to leave out. I wonder, did they check into that? Did that rental car have the same suspension etc that a non-fleet car has?

[Sean@Phastek]

Originally Posted by jtzako

Problem with the rentals is they arent necessarily the same car. They often custom order rentals and leave out things that a normal customer would have no option to leave out. I wonder, did they check into that? Did that rental car have the same suspension etc that a non-fleet car has?

Good point. The red rental car doesn't look to have the RS package, but I don't know if that changes up anything with the suspension or performance.

Both cars are Manual LS3's, and they claim they are the same as far as the "before" setups...

[PYROLYSIS]

Why would a rental have a different suspension than any other stock car? I was just thinking it was possible that the car had been abused and could have negatively affected its performance numbers. Those skidpad numbers seem a little off from what all the other testers have said so far. Its common sense that an improved aftermarket setup can improve this Camaros performance, but I don't think trash talking the stock car's suspension is the best way to sell your product.

[Tal]

Originally Posted by jtzako

Problem with the rentals is they arent necessarily the same car. They often custom order rentals and leave out things that a normal customer would have no option to leave out. I wonder, did they check into that? Did that rental car have the same suspension etc that a non-fleet car has?

I don't think there's been enough volume in Camaro SS fleet sales for anything like that to be practical or likely. The only thing I would be concerned about is making sure they had the same tires, different tires would definately invalidate any serious comparison.

[nashstat]

For 6 weeks straight, I got upgraded by Avis to a Camaro. Mostly the V6 but sometimes the SS. Then I bought one of my own. And no, the rentals do not have the RS package on them, just standard equipment.

The issue with rental cars is that they are MASSIVELY abused. I mean people driving over humps at high speeds, hard breaking, not driving carefully and going over pot holes... not to mention that the average rental gets about 30,000 miles/year... that is double the norm!

Mine drives a lot better than the Avis lot ones.

[Hotchkis]

Hi Guys -

Sean, thanks for posting Jonny's Autoblog article. He's a great writer.

It doesn't seem super clear in the AB story, but we actually had three 2010 Camaros at the test, two identical manual SS cars on the same tires (both forum members actually) and the red rental car. We ran numbers on all, and the stock rental and stock customer cars were almost identical.

The main reason we had the rental was so the visiting journalists had something to drive so they'd stay cheerful through all the testing. It's one thing to ask folks to let Mark Hotchkis drive their cars, it's another to let 20 automotive writers!

You can find all the numbers and cars on our Facebook page or on the new Hotchkis Camaro Blog.

[armysig]

I find it great you gave the writers the opportunity to drive a rental vehicle, but that in itself cannot compare to a modified vehicle like the one you upgraded.
As an independent tester for the military, I find the method of the test flawed in a few ways.
1. A test should have been done on vehicle “A” prior to modifications. Reason being this is your baseline to work with. Gather your data and keep it on hand for later.
2. Modify the vehicle as you would want it for the next phase of testing.
3. Under similar test conditions, I.E. weather, temp, etc. perform the same test(s) with the same driver.
4. Collect your data and then compare the results.
This is not a process that can be done in a day or two. I would guess that for a test like this it would be at least 2 trips to the track, mod time, and then data collection/process time.
Even though you’re comparing apples to apples, there are still variations to those apples with in each species.
The end result I see for this test is, yes with your suspension modifications you have done a great job, but I think you could have gotten better numbers to present to your clients to sell more products in the future.

[ClaymoreZ28]

+1....

I agree - I dont like the approach of basically saying - "Handling on the Camaro SS sucks - you need our kit".....

[Hotchkis]

ArmySig

Testing is always going to suffer from these conversations, that's why most companies don't even post test results (and some don't even test!)

We've actually had several test outings, but Jonny from Autoblog was only able to attend one. He actually drove the modified Camaro as well as the rental, and as for his personal opinions on the Camaro, that's subjective.

If you'd like to get more information about the test, there's quite a lot of detail in this thread

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...kis+track+test

[armysig]

Originally Posted by ClaymoreZ28

+1....

I agree - I dont like the approach of basically saying - "Handling on the Camaro SS sucks - you need our kit".....

Oh I'm not trying to say that these guys gave improper data or even did it wrong.

I just gave the best scenario for testing. What I outlined would take days or even weeks. With that you're looking at large labor costs, that could also include travel, overnight stays, food, and overtime.

I'm not doubting that this company isn't doing the best work and making a great product. I'm just use to seeing test methods done the military way.

All I was trying to do was give helpful hints.

Originally Posted by Hotchkis

ArmySig

Testing is always going to suffer from these conversations, that's why most companies don't even post test results (and some don't even test!)

We've actually had several test outings, but Jonny from Autoblog was only able to attend one. He actually drove the modified Camaro as well as the rental, and as for his personal opinions on the Camaro, that's subjective.

If you'd like to get more information about the test, there's quite a lot of detail in this thread

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...kis+track+test

And as a future customer, I would like to thank you for your hard work. Now I just need to convince my wife that it's a need....

[Hotchkis]

"And as a future customer, I would like to thank you for your hard work. Now I just need to convince my wife that it's a need...."

Maybe you can win her over by presenting it as a safety improvement! Flatter cornering = more tire contact = improved brake performance = Safer!

If that doesn't work, try jewelry.

[armysig]

Originally Posted by Hotchkis

"And as a future customer, I would like to thank you for your hard work. Now I just need to convince my wife that it's a need...."

Maybe you can win her over by presenting it as a safety improvement! Flatter cornering = more tire contact = improved brake performance = Safer!

If that doesn't work, try jewelry.

That is a good idea, she is all about safety, but means I would need to drive faster to use the full functions of the kit. I'd like that, but she would freak. Hehe

[JEFF2010SSMANUAL]

Whats silly is that MOST owners want a somewhat smooth powerful great looking car that is fun and relaible. ONLY A VERY VERY small percentage will take it to the track. Or even drive it around corners like a nut on public streets. With law enforcement on every corner its hard to drive like the nut I am.

This car IS A MUSCLE CAR not a track racer. IF you want a track car go buy a Nissan Nismo Z car. Or if you got the $$$ buy a Nissan GTR. If your bank account is HUGE buy a ZR1 or a Porsche twin turbo 911.

I have done suspension mods on cars before, and sure they look cool lowered and handle much better around corners.

This car does not handle like a PIG, it handles like a HEAVY MUSCLE CAR.

TO EACH HIS OR HER OWN.