Putting down up to 50hp more at the wheels without engine mods

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

I had the pleasure to spend a few days with Rick Hollenback, from Synergy Motorts in Fremont Ca, Rick is a seriously talented performance guy who is just about as anal as I am. Rick has been certified in all our Pedders platforms except Camaro. Guess what we did for 2 days!!

Rick and I set this one up significantly more aggressive than I normally do. Why? Check out the wheels!. Custom Forgelines with 305 RE11 Bridgestones on all 4 wheels, custom built to Pedders specs. They are the same configuration as the Pedders Camaro. I will let the owner post up the specs if he wants. But all I can say if you see this Camaro going thru the twisties, do not even try it unless you are a sadistic person who likes to get spanked!

thanks
mike
DMS

[SonnyakaPig]

Originally Posted by dms

We are both correct. But the difference I am talking about is true effective hp, and not dyno hp. If you increase your effeciency, are you not increasing your true hp to the ground?

mike
dms

Mike, a question, as I've been following your brand and watching some of your videos for a couple of months now... Can you give me advice on the suspension components that you sell that would fit my needs? Please?

I don't even know if there's an exact match for my driving needs, but here it goes:

I have a supercharged SS with high 400's rwhp. Otherwise, it's all stock.

I want a lower stance for appearance and performance, better performance for drag racing, but not serious drag racing as I don't get any time to go to the track. But I do like to find some unpopulated straightaways and practice 0-60 runs, the 1/8 and 1/4 mile.

I also want an aftermarket suspension package that will give me better handling on mountain, curvy roads.

And overall, I want the suspension to keep my car comfortable on daily drives. I drive a lot, especially freeway drives!

Am I asking for too much? Do you have a recommended package for my needs and what is the price?

Thank you.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig

Mike, a question, as I've been following your brand and watching some of your videos for a couple of months now... Can you give me advice on the suspension components that you sell that would fit my needs? Please?

I don't even know if there's an exact match for my driving needs, but here it goes:

I have a supercharged SS with high 400's rwhp. Otherwise, it's all stock.

I want a lower stance for appearance and performance, better performance for drag racing, but not serious drag racing as I don't get any time to go to the track. But I do like to find some unpopulated straightaways and practice 0-60 runs, the 1/8 and 1/4 mile.

I also want an aftermarket suspension package that will give me better handling on mountain, curvy roads.

And overall, I want the suspension to keep my car comfortable on daily drives. I drive a lot, especially freeway drives!

Am I asking for too much? Do you have a recommended package for my needs and what is the price?

Thank you.

Still a little vague on the descriptions but I do understand what you are looking for. What is missing are your tire/wheel options, a little more specific on your drag options, and of coarse your budget.

Being serious about both drags and the twisties, requires damping level flexibility. So I will give you a couple of options that are focused around our Pedders Xa eXtreme Coil overs.

First Option:

CAMARO STREET XA

Camaro Street Xa

Full Package Retail of $2308.11

This is a value Package with a kick. The new state of the art Pedders eXtreme Xa coil Overs are revolutionizing the auto community. The Mono tube 30 way adjustability will give you the ultimate in desired ride; a flexible ride. Maximum comfort when you want, to killer control when you have to show the world you are on top of your game. This package will include the critical bushings of Street 1. Plus our alignment package will give you full alignment extended alignment capabilities front and rear and adds 1 to 1.25 degrees of positive front caster!


Retail $1,961.89 EA

Item Code Description Qty
160086 Camaro Ext Xa Adjust Coilover 1
EP1167 Zeta Differential Mounts 1
EP1200 Camaro Rear Sub Frame Insert 1
EP6578 Camaro Fnt Radius Rod bush ins 1
PDUSACAMFULL Camaro Full Alignment Kit 1

Then add our Camaro Solution B sway bar kit
CAMAROSOLUTIONB 27MM FR. & REAR BARS WITH 4 ADJUSTABLE ENDLINKS Larger HD end links require enlarging mounting holes. $599.99

I can advise you on setup from heights, damping levels and alignment off the forum. But need more info on your tires and any biases in performance levels


Here is Option 2

CAMARO DRAG XA


Full Package Retail of $3396.49

This package is for the CAMARO owner who uses his CAMARO primarily for Drag Racing but still uses it for a daily driver. This kit offers all the critical rear bushings, and includes our most HD upgraded bushes for absolute rock bottom control, yet still have the street performance comfort for daily driving. It also upgrades your OE front radius rod bushings, with our rock solid, but compliant poly bushes, plus allowing you to add 1 to 1.25 degrees of positive caster in the front, plus with the alignment kit, you will be able to get your rear tires to a more desirable camber for better tire grip. Then adding the benefits of our Xa Coil Overs offers you maximum height adjusting flexibility, and when at the track, will allow you to soften up the front and firm up the rear to meet your launching needs. This Package gives you a serious advantage of having fun driving to the track thru the twisties with great confidence, then CLICK TUNE PLAY at the track, then CLICK TUNE PLAY back for aggressive street, and continue your excitement and fun driving home!

Retail $2,887.01 EA

Item Code Description Qty
160086 Camaro Ext Xa Adjust Coilover 1
EP1167HD Zeta HD Differential Mounts 1
EP1201HD Camaro HD Rear Sub Frame Repl 1
EP2112 Zeta Steering Rack/Pinion Mnt 1
EP6577 Camaro Front Radius Rod Bush 1
EP7264 Zeta Rear Lower Control Arm In 1
EP7322 Camaro Rear Upper Control Arm 1
EP7323 Zeta Rear Trailing ArmToe Link 4
PDUSACAMFULL Camaro Full Alignment Kit 1

Now this system, with proper setup, will work very well for the twisties, but the primary focus is drag racing

Option 3 A very serious kit!!

CAMARO TRACK II

Camaro Track II

Full Package Price $3996.48

The Track II combines all the components of the Street II and adds sway bars, all bushes and adjustable HD Endlinks. With the virtual pivot point design and the advanced rear suspension you tracked Camaro does not need to be over sprung and over damped. In complete OE trim it will out perform many respected marquees. With a Track II System we are going hunting for the big boys with big dollar stickers. We add more urethane bushes to create greater control. These are Pedders exclusively designed urethane bushes that use voids, shapes and volume of urethane to increase control while maintaining an OE like ride. There are no squeaks. It is not rough. It is AMG like control. It has long been the Pedders philosophy that sway bars are not used to correct deficiencies in your suspension. Sway Bars are the final tuning step for a properly sprung, damped and bushed vehicle. Pedders sways offer four positions of adjustment front and three positions of adjustment rear. They include Pedders urethane bushes. They are perfectly matched to provide an amazing level of control as they compliment your Pedderised ZETA II Camaro, PLUS the flexibility to fine tune the control rates to fit your needs. This kit uses our Pedders eXtreme Xa Coil Overs that give you a massive amount of flexibility, custom tuning to your individual driving habits and needs. You will have complete suspension travel no matter what height you set the Xas at. This will give you the same comfort at a 2 inch drop as you would have at a 1/2 inch drop. For the SS Camaros with Brembos, we strongly recommend adding our Complete Brake Hose Kit for added performance and security. PDUSACAM2800 Click on the hyperlink to add a Camaro Complete Brake Hose Kit Part # PDUSACAM2800


Retail $3,397.00 EA

Item Code Description Qty Availability
160086 Camaro Ext Xa Adjust Coilover 1
CAMAROSOLUTIONB 27mm F & R bars & 4 links 1
EP1167HD Zeta HD Differential Mounts 1
EP1201HD Camaro HD Rear Sub Frame Repl 1
EP2112 Zeta Steering Rack/Pinion Mnt 1
EP6577 Camaro Front Radius Rod Bush 1
EP7264 Zeta Rear Lower Control Arm In 1
EP7322 Camaro Rear Upper Control Arm 1
EP7323 Zeta Rear Trailing ArmToe Link 4
PDUSACAMFULL Camaro Full Alignment Kit 1

This is a very serious kit but not our most searious. Contains all of our most HD bushings, and all the bushings we have to offer. Add the expertise we will offer you for proper setup, which is every bit as important as the parts we put in, you can have an absolutely amazing ride with huge amounts of flexibility on cruise comfort, to max drag set up, to all out road racing. CLICK, TUNE, PLAY in minutes.

Your thoughts?

mike
dms

[JusticePete]

Street Xa

CAMARO DRAG XA


CAMARO TRACK II

Mike is dead nuts on. On a dyno, your Camaro is strapped down to make certain it doesn't move and to almost eliminate slip. The drums on a dyno have grooves cut into them to hold them to the tires without slipping. If your car were strapped down at the drag strip your usable RWHP would match that of the dyno. That is one function of suspension -- to make the RWHP usable. Some of this is done by squaring up the tire contact patch to the track surface. Some is in the efficient transfer of power keeping the sub-frame aligned. Some is in the control arms removing compliance. It all adds up to a lot more effective transfer of RWHP in real world use.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Street Xa

CAMARO DRAG XA


CAMARO TRACK II

Mike is dead nuts on. On a dyno, your Camaro is strapped down to make certain it doesn't move and to almost eliminate slip. The drums on a dyno have grooves cut into them to hold them to the tires without slipping. If your car were strapped down at the drag strip your usable RWHP would match that of the dyno. That is one function of suspension -- to make the RWHP usable. Some of this is done by squaring up the tire contact patch to the track surface. Some is in the efficient transfer of power keeping the sub-frame aligned. Some is in the control arms removing compliance. It all adds up to a lot more effective transfer of RWHP in real world use.

Most performance enthusiasts get the idea of getting power to the rear wheels, but a lot of us need to emphasize the value of the suspension in converting power to performance. Your power is hitting the ground during that burnout you did at the starting line, but a guy with the same car and same power who went the extra mile with a suspension upgrade is going to pummel you at the track.

[SonnyakaPig]

Mike and Justice Pete,

Thank you very much for the feedback.

Mike, I like the third package you suggested, Camaro Track II, because it comes with the sway bars. I see that it's the same package as the one above it, but I know I would want the sways.

Regarding tires, I have stock wheels and stock tires. I plan on keeping them stock. Maybe I'll try a different brand of rubber next but so far they're still the P-Zeros.

So, the coilovers drop the car 2". Is that correct?

This is a novice question, but I'm a novice, so here it goes: how do you adjust the suspension? Where on the car do you use your hands to adjust? Do you need tools, do you need your car up in the air? If you don't have constant access to a shop and want to adjust do you need jacks?

Thanks.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig

Mike and Justice Pete,

Thank you very much for the feedback.

Mike, I like the third package you suggested, Camaro Track II, because it comes with the sway bars. I see that it's the same package as the one above it, but I know I would want the sways.

Regarding tires, I have stock wheels and stock tires. I plan on keeping them stock. Maybe I'll try a different brand of rubber next but so far they're still the P-Zeros.

So, the coilovers drop the car 2". Is that correct?

This is a novice question, but I'm a novice, so here it goes: how do you adjust the suspension? Where on the car do you use your hands to adjust? Do you need tools, do you need your car up in the air? If you don't have constant access to a shop and want to adjust do you need jacks?

Thanks.

The TracfkII kit is awesome. Replaces all the bushings we have and includes the most hd versions that we have. then add our sway bar package which offers the best balance of any sway bar packsage out there, and our near perfect Pedders eXtreme coil overs, also not to mention the supplemental adjustability that we offer with our front caster enhancements, rear camber and toe enhancements, height adjustability without affecting ride height, and 30 way detented adjustability, what you will get out of all of this is off the charts improvement!. Then the power and support of the Pedders organization, makes your Pedders experience quite satisfactory.

Here is a link for you to get a lot of information of Xa adjustability:

Pedders Xa Coil Overs

Here are the 3 adjustments on a Xa coil Over:
1. set the trap or compression of the coil so it is not loose when the Camaro is in the air on a rack

2. Height adjustability is performed by threading the strut itself, in/out of the lower mounting bracket. The advantages of this are significant: a. keep the coils better balanced, b. No matter what height you set it at, you will always have full suspension travel. This is a serious advantage for comfort and performance

3. Damping adjustments are very simple. On each strut, there is a red dial that has 30 detneted clicks. As long as you can count, you can change your adjustments as many times you would like. Here is a quick reference to the clicks and what they do:

1. 0-5 clicks is equal to OE damping
2. 10-12 clicks are are at aggressive street while still maintaining a sporty, but comfortable ride
3. 20-22 clicks you are at road race levels
4. 30 clicks are you popping hemrriods!!


Another advantage with our Pedders Xa Coil overs is the design of the strut itself. It is a monotube which is in general a superior design to a twin tube design, and we offer adjustability to all damping velocities. Some coils overs will only allow you to dampen slow and medium speed shock velocities. The hight speed or performance levels you cannot adjust.

Hope this helps. If you need more info, just ask as always

thanks
mike
dms

[JusticePete]

Camber and Toe make a huge difference. Mike will explain that in detail.

[SonnyakaPig]

Thanks for all of the information, guys. It's starting to make more sense. I'm thinking this is going to be my next mod. I really want to feel top level performance from my Camaro, so I know installing a great suspension will get me closer to my goal.

What happens if I decide to install a new rear axle? Do the rear suspension parts fit with aftermarket axles?

Also, when I install the sways, I think I'm supposed to drill larger holes for their installation. If I do that, though, am I correct in assuming that I cannot re-install the factory sways?

Again, I really appreciate the time you guys have taken to offer thorough explanations.

Do you guys have any recommendations for good shops to have the installation done in Southern California?

[Caliman93230]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Camber and Toe make a huge difference. Mike will explain that in detail.

I need parts to help eliminate wheel hop, increse times at the strip. pm me with some parts/prices

[brtaus]

After doing a track day today, I clearly see what the OP is saying. While the stock suspension handled the track day today, I can see why you would upgrade suspension.

I got more and more comfortable after each lap and pushed it a little harder each lap but toward the end, I had to back off b/c the car was breaking loose.Now with an upgraded suspension, I am quite certain this would not have happened.

I now know what my next mod will be...

[SonnyakaPig]

Mike,

Has the Camaro been tested on the skidpad with the Camaro Track II package? If so, how many g's does it pull? Thanks.

[brtaus]

After doing a track day today, I clearly see what the OP is saying. While the stock suspension handled the track day today, I can see why you would upgrade suspension.

I got more and more comfortable after each lap and pushed it a little harder each lap but toward the end, I had to back off b/c the car was breaking loose.Now with an upgraded suspension, I am quite certain this would not have happened.

I now know what my next mod will be...

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig

Thanks for all of the information, guys. It's starting to make more sense. I'm thinking this is going to be my next mod. I really want to feel top level performance from my Camaro, so I know installing a great suspension will get me closer to my goal.

What happens if I decide to install a new rear axle? Do the rear suspension parts fit with aftermarket axles?

Also, when I install the sways, I think I'm supposed to drill larger holes for their installation. If I do that, though, am I correct in assuming that I cannot re-install the factory sways?

Again, I really appreciate the time you guys have taken to offer thorough explanations.

Do you guys have any recommendations for good shops to have the installation done in Southern California?

If you change the axles and driveshaft, unless they are 6-8 inches in diameter, they will work perfectly fine with our complete system.

Why you would want to go backwards and put in a OE rear bar is not known. but if you do, you would simply drill out the OE hole in the bar.

Why did we go with a 12mm end link? Because the 10mm end links are too soft for the maximum driving that can be performed. Why do we use a ball joint style end rather than a heim joint style end? the Balljoint ends are far more reliable than the heim joint style for day in and day out driving. For a all out race care where you replace these on a regular basis, does not worry about the effects of these in snow, ice, salt areas.

mike
dms