Shouldn't we be comparing this to the new Mustangs?

[StoutFiles]

Ford's seen what the Camaro can do, they'd be stupid not to try and match it.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by rayhawk

Assuming you are right, are they planning on a dohc motor? Just curious what your sources are telling you. I know ford produces a 5.4l dohc motor that is over 400 hp, it just seems like bs that they could now produce a 5.0l motor that is a SOHC that will put out over 400 hp and be as inexpensive to manufacture as the current motor. The increase in displacement just does'nt seem to be enough without adding a lot more rpm to reach the quoted numbers. And a 5.0l motor will only achieve that type of hp with lots of rpm so I would still be surprised to see it keep up with the new camaro. Here's to hoping ford will finally produce a mustang that is'nt embarrased by the camaro though!

As for handling upgrades, I think it is hard to believe they would stiffen the suspension as I think that would turn most people off when comparing to the camaro in terms of ride quality, etc. Thanks for the info though, it just sounds too good to be true for the mustang.

The 5.0L in question isn't a SOHC engine. The engine is a DOHC piece based on the Mod motor design, although it is fairly heavily revised. The design is based on a decked 5.4L design and employs a 3.63 inch bore and heads which owe a lot to the GT500/GT design currently in use.

The handling improvements aren't due to a stiffer suspension, but to other changes including a stiffer chassis and suspension tweaks. The 2011 5.0L/302ci GT is a very serious piece and will represent a serious improvement in every dynamic/performance respect over the current car.

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by syr74

The 5.0L in question isn't a SOHC engine. The engine is a DOHC piece based on the Mod motor design, although it is fairly heavily revised. The design is based on a decked 5.4L design and employs a 3.63 inch bore and heads which owe a lot to the GT500/GT design currently in use.

The handling improvements aren't due to a stiffer suspension, but to other changes including a stiffer chassis and suspension tweaks. The 2011 5.0L/302ci GT is a very serious piece and will represent a serious improvement in every dynamic/performance respect over the current car.

May not be a fair comparison, but looking at the M3 specs, this seems along the same lines of a fairly high revving motor to reach those power numbers. I just wonder how much they will have to give up in terms of efficiency to reach that power level. The M3 has only a 4L v8 and gets 20mpg highway, I think mainly due to the aggressive cam profiles required to spin to 8k rpm. I think the camaro and mustang will be two pretty different machines-which I prefer over everybody copying the other guy. Makes it more interesting.

[StuMac]

So is the new Mustang going to be fiberglass? I can't see how they can manage the weight of the new safety requirements, bigger engine, beefier transmission and the IRS needed to compete in handling while keeping cost down without it.

[SilverTurtle]

all talk, no proof... sorry, Pony boys, but you know you're still looking at 2011 model year engines here and by then, the Camaro will be out and selling... and the 2010 Mustangs will be burdened by the same engines that are in the current car.


when you get some REAL proof, feel free to revive this thread... but until you've got something to back what you say up, you're just blowing smoke, fellas.

[KatarHol]

Originally Posted by syr74

The 5.0L in question isn't a SOHC engine. The engine is a DOHC piece based on the Mod motor design, although it is fairly heavily revised. The design is based on a decked 5.4L design and employs a 3.63 inch bore and heads which owe a lot to the GT500/GT design currently in use.

The handling improvements aren't due to a stiffer suspension, but to other changes including a stiffer chassis and suspension tweaks. The 2011 5.0L/302ci GT is a very serious piece and will represent a serious improvement in every dynamic/performance respect over the current car.

I'm of the opinion that this 5.0L isn't going to have 400HP,more like 350-380HP,which will be enough to compete with the SS,if the weight doesn't go up too much. That leaves plenty of room for future SE models and it won't make '10 GT owners feel like schmucks for buying a lame duck model if it only has 20-30 more HP rather than 70HP more. The brakes and chassis upgrades won't be as big a slap in the face as the Bullitt is pretty solid to begin with,but if i bought a 330HP GT(guessing at the HP)and the next year Ford dropped a 400HP GT on us,i'd be pissed. I guess '01 Cobra owners felt this way,since the '03 Cobra went on sale the next year.'08 WRX is the same thing.
I don't know,i don't see any sense in a one year only type of model,i know it happens like that all the time,but if the 2011 is that much better,Ford is making fools out of 2010 owners. Maybe the 5.0L is for a Mach 1 and the GT will continue on unchanged????

[SilverTurtle]

and make no mistake, nobody wants a Mustang to compete more than I do... I WANT Ford to do well and I WANT Ford to build a really great car to compete with the Camaro... but this is the same battle that was going on in the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s... and Mustang guys INSISTED that their cars were faster and all the magazines, test tracks and professional drivers proved otherwise... the Mustang is a nice car, but to say that it owns the Camaro is wrong... its NEVER owned the Camaro... even the '03-'04 Cobras were only slightly faster than a stock 2002 Camaro SS and they were ALOT more expensive... and lets not EVEN compare the GT500 to the Camaro... because even that 500hp car is only slightly faster than the 422hp LS3 2010 Camaro SS.

bottom line: bring it, Pony boys... we'll be waiting at the drag strips, deserted roads and red lights with our 5th gen Camaros... the Pony car wars are back!


VIVA LA MUSCLE CAR!

[Speed74SS]

And when we are talking about horsepower with the camaro, the numbers GM gives out is close to wheel horsepower and not flywheel. Thats why you will be seeing the SS run close to the GT500..

[Max]

Yea, Insurance.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

and make no mistake, nobody wants a Mustang to compete more than I do... I WANT Ford to do well and I WANT Ford to build a really great car to compete with the Camaro... but this is the same battle that was going on in the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s... and Mustang guys INSISTED that their cars were faster and all the magazines, test tracks and professional drivers proved otherwise... the Mustang is a nice car, but to say that it owns the Camaro is wrong... its NEVER owned the Camaro... even the '03-'04 Cobras were only slightly faster than a stock 2002 Camaro SS and they were ALOT more expensive... and lets not EVEN compare the GT500 to the Camaro... because even that 500hp car is only slightly faster than the 422hp LS3 2010 Camaro SS.

bottom line: bring it, Pony boys... we'll be waiting at the drag strips, deserted roads and red lights with our 5th gen Camaros... the Pony car wars are back!


VIVA LA MUSCLE CAR!

you know i may have been caught up with the anti mustang stuff, and dont get me wrong i really hate fords, but i do want the mustang to be better. better mustangs means better camaros

[Dom]

Originally Posted by StoutFiles

Ford's seen what the Camaro can do, they'd be stupid not to try and match it.

Let's analyze your statement looking at history.

1993 Chevy brings out the 275-285hp LT1 camaro.

1994 Ford answers with a 215hp 5.0(really a 4.9) then in 1996 with another 215hp 4.6L.

1998 Chevy brings out the '305hp' LS1. We now know it is really at least 350hp.

1998 Ford answers again with a 260hp 4.6L. Not even bothers with a new engine just revises the heads.

2005 Ford answers with something that matches the LT1, 12 years later. New 4.6L makes 300hp. They also match Chevy's 200hp 3.8 V6 offering back in 1995 1/2 with their own 200hp 4.0L V6. 10 years later for that.

So you were saying about Ford being stupid and not try to match the Chevy?

[StoutFiles]

So you were saying about Ford being stupid and not try to match the Chevy?

After seeing the Camaro's interior, they have been reworking the Mustang's interior.
The Mustang's body is changing.
The HP will increase...it probably won't match the Camaro, but I guarantee it will increase.

There are some things Ford doesn't try to match though. They'd rather have a lower price...and considering how many more models they sell it's not a bad plan. Let's hope for competition sake they do improve the stats of the Mustang considerably.

[Dom]

Originally Posted by StoutFiles

After seeing the Camaro's interior, they have been reworking the Mustang's interior.
The Mustang's body is changing.
The HP will increase...it probably won't match the Camaro, but I guarantee it will increase.

There are some things Ford doesn't try to match though. They'd rather have a lower price...and considering how many more models they sell it's not a bad plan. Let's hope for competition sake they do improve the stats of the Mustang considerably.

I agree it will probably increase. I just don't think by much given what Ford has done in the past.

[Mindz]

Originally Posted by StoutFiles

There are some things Ford doesn't try to match though. They'd rather have a lower price...and considering how many more models they sell it's not a bad plan. Let's hope for competition sake they do improve the stats of the Mustang considerably.

Mustang edition # (insert 6 digit number here).

I'd like for a competitive mmustang to come out also. To date I have heard NOTHING about performance numbers that are even close to the Camaro's performance numbers. I won't compare a gt500 to a camaro as the GT500 costs almost double and is a limited production.