Tuner will VOID warranty

[Frost]

I can tell you for sure that there are some dealerships who are going above and beyond to promote these cars to enthusiasts and are willing, in some cases to honor a warranty MUCH MUCH further than anyone here would expect when work is done in controlled conditions. They are doing it to get the sales. I hate having to be so vague, but there are cars with mods that have done it with the blessing of the dealer. The dealer is retaining the cars' warranties and they know not to reflash the PCMs.

[SA CHEVY]

Originally Posted by Frost

I can tell you for sure that there are some dealerships who are going above and beyond to promote these cars to enthusiasts and are willing, in some cases to honor a warranty MUCH MUCH further than anyone here would expect when work is done in controlled conditions. They are doing it to get the sales. I hate having to be so vague, but there are cars with mods that have done it with the blessing of the dealer. The dealer is retaining the cars' warranties and they know not to reflash the PCMs.

This wasn't anytime as of late but not too long ago in 2006 I had the transmission go out on my 01' Sierra and when I took it in for the warranty work I told the guy that I had a tune on the truck and if he didn't mind leaving it on there instead of reflashing and sure enough, got the truck back with the tune still in tact and no issues on it. I suppose times are just changing now or maybe honesty goes a lot further than we think with our dealers?

[DSteck]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

This is a good point indeed.

Blaming aftermarket flashes in general seems to be a bit unfair. If they want to go make a case of this, I think they should have to read the tune out and decide what it was about the tune that caused the failure, and I'd bet in a court of law, the manufacturer saying 'well, we dont know what they did, just that they did something' would not go to far with a jury of our peers...

While it seems unfair to the end user... you have to consider the point of view from the manufacturer. It would cost money to review the calibration and see what changed. Sure, shutting off skip shift probably will never hurt ANYTHING, but it would cost money to have somebody review the calibration and look at everything. Beyond that, a jury of your peers probably doesn't know dick-all about engine calibration... so who is to say they'd understand what was changed and whether or not it made an impact?

It's pretty simple. Factory calibrations are certified not only by the manufacturer for their parts, but by the EPA and more. Technically, it's illegal to modify it at all. Technically. Doesn't meant I'm going to stop changing them.

[1fastdog]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

This is a good point indeed.

Blaming aftermarket flashes in general seems to be a bit unfair. If they want to go make a case of this, I think they should have to read the tune out and decide what it was about the tune that caused the failure, and I'd bet in a court of law, the manufacturer saying 'well, we dont know what they did, just that they did something' would not go to far with a jury of our peers...

Are these provisions part of Diablo Sport's warranty?

"This limited warranty does not cover damage caused by modification, alteration, repair or service of the Product by anyone other than DiabloSport,"

" DISCLAIMER Not legal for sale or use on any pollution controlled motor vehicles. Legal in California only for racing vehicles which may never be used upon a highway."

"Disclaimer. The Product is being sold with no warranties of any kind, express or implied. The Product is not endorsed by the manufacturer of your vehicle and there is no affiliation between DiabloSport and the manufacturer of your vehicle. Installation of the Product in your vehicle or use of the Product with your vehicle may limit or void your rights under any warranty provided by the manufacturer of your vehicle, and DiabloSport assumes no responsibility in such event. Any warranty not provided herein, and any remedy which, but for this provision, might arise by implication or operation of law, is hereby excluded and disclaimed. The implied warranties of merchantability and of fitness for any particular purpose herein are expressly disclaimed."

I found this on: http://www.diablosport.com/index.php...isplay&pid=116

If this is not the right info, I apologize.

I think people should have fun with their vehicles.

I also think it's not a bad thing to suggest that some actions may or will result in consequences that deserve considerations and an "eyes wide open" approach.

What I firmly believe is that one can alter the cal in a vehicle for better performance. It can be a consequence of the modification. It can also have other consequences such as reduced performance or allow the validation range of associated parts to be exceeded.

It comes down to risk tolerance.

As for what a jury would think or not think is something lawyers argue on a constant basis.

It could be questioned what a jury would think if someone claimed they bought something to make their vehicle faster and it "broke" afterward?

I don't think anyone would bet money on the outcome.

I drive a modified vehicle myself. I accept the risks as well as the results I want. The responsibility as well as the fun are all "mine".

[themossman]

Originally Posted by 1fastdog

Are these provisions part of Diablo Sport's warranty?

"This limited warranty does not cover damage caused by modification, alteration, repair or service of the Product by anyone other than DiabloSport,"

Good point. I wonder...if I disassemble, reprogram, and then fry a component...are they willing to repair the unit under warranty?

What's good for the goose...


You hit on the point I made earlier...it's all about AWARENESS and accepting risk. It's not right for the tuners to suggest there is 'no risk', unless they themselves are willing to accept that risk.

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by themossman

Good point. I wonder...if I disassemble, reprogram, and then fry a component...are they willing to repair the unit under warranty?

What's good for the goose...

Yeah, that wont fly....

Originally Posted by themossman

You hit on the point I made earlier...it's all about AWARENESS and accepting risk. It's not right for the tuners to suggest there is 'no risk', unless they themselves are willing to accept that risk.

Lets clarify, once more here....

When used properly, the tunes we provide will not cause any problems in your car.

Now, if you have it custom tuned, and all TM turned off, and timing cranked to the moon, well, yeah, you could have a problem there, if the tune causes a problem and you try to get it fixed under warranty.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

Yeah, that wont fly....


Lets clarify, once more here....

When used properly, the tunes we provide will not cause any problems in your car.

Now, if you have it custom tuned, and all TM turned off, and timing cranked to the moon, well, yeah, you could have a problem there, if the tune causes a problem and you try to get it fixed under warranty.

Until you back up that claim with a warranty...it means nothing.

I don't mean to be hard on you, and I understand that you are confident when you state that 'it won't cause any problems', but it does not alter the fact that the minute that someone uses your product to alter their existing factory tune, they are running a very real risk that GM could void their warranty. Whether that right or wrong, it's not up for debate. The fact is simple, if you tune your car, your accept a risk that your power train warranty could be voided. You're continuing to suggest that the risk is non-existent...and that's incorrect (as Number 3 has been vehemently trying to express).

Unless you offer a 'guaranty' that the warranty will not be voided OR you're offering supplemental warranty...you really don't have much to offer.

I've heard this argument over and over on various forums and with various makes/brands over the years. The only ones that can legitimately offer their customers 'comfort' are the ones that guarantee a matching warranty (like Dinan does for BMWs).

We have not seen anyone's warranty voided as of yet (at least on these forums) for just a tune...so one could assume the relative risk is low)...but the risk is still there...


And don't you see the irony in saying that you wouldn't warranty your own product after I had tampered with it?

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by themossman

Until you back up that claim with a warranty...it means nothing.

I don't mean to be hard on you, and I understand that you are confident when you state that 'it won't cause any problems', but it does not alter the fact that the minute that someone uses your product to alter their existing factory tune, they are running a very real risk that GM could void their warranty. Whether that right or wrong, it's not up for debate. The fact is simple, if you tune your car, your accept a risk that your power train warranty could be voided. You're continuing to suggest that the risk is non-existent...and that's incorrect (as Number 3 has been vehemently trying to express).

Unless you offer a 'guaranty' that the warranty will not be voided OR you're offering supplemental warranty...you really don't have much to offer.

I've heard this argument over and over on various forums and with various makes/brands over the years. The only ones that can legitimately offer their customers 'comfort' are the ones that guarantee a matching warranty (like Dinan does for BMWs).

We have not seen anyone's warranty voided as of yet (at least on these forums) for just a tune...so one could assume the relative risk is low)...but the risk is still there...


And don't you see the irony in saying that you wouldn't warranty your own product after I had tampered with it?

He didn't say anything about voided warranties. He said, if used properly, their tune wouldn't cause any issues in the car.

[GaryTucker]

You mean I can't use my new flux capacitor to piggyback onto a programmer to up my horsepower even more and still have the programmer's warranty? The manufacturer of the flux capacitor says it is safe and won't void my programmer warranty...I'm shocked!!!

[themossman]

Originally Posted by brtaus

He didn't say anything about voided warranties. He said, if used properly, their tune wouldn't cause any issues in the car.

Read the whole thread...

Originally Posted by GaryTucker

You mean I can't use my new flux capacitor to piggyback onto a programmer to up my horsepower even more and still have the programmer's warranty? The manufacturer of the flux capacitor says it is safe and won't void my programmer warranty...I'm shocked!!!

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by themossman

Read the whole thread...

Believe me, I have. Anyway, I was referring to the part you bolding in his quote and you talking about voided warranties in relation to the bolded part. His bolded part was this: Their tune + proper use = no issues with car. Nothing there about warranties.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by brtaus

Believe me, I have. Anyway, I was referring to the part you bolding in his quote and you talking about voided warranties in relation to the bolded part. His bolded part was this: Their tune + proper use = no issues with car. Nothing there about warranties.

This entire thread is about voided warranties and tunes...

and why are you bummed about your dyno results???

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by themossman

Until you back up that claim with a warranty...it means nothing.

I don't mean to be hard on you, and I understand that you are confident when you state that 'it won't cause any problems', but it does not alter the fact that the minute that someone uses your product to alter their existing factory tune, they are running a very real risk that GM could void their warranty. Whether that right or wrong, it's not up for debate. The fact is simple, if you tune your car, your accept a risk that your power train warranty could be voided. You're continuing to suggest that the risk is non-existent...and that's incorrect (as Number 3 has been vehemently trying to express).

Unless you offer a 'guaranty' that the warranty will not be voided OR you're offering supplemental warranty...you really don't have much to offer.

I've heard this argument over and over on various forums and with various makes/brands over the years. The only ones that can legitimately offer their customers 'comfort' are the ones that guarantee a matching warranty (like Dinan does for BMWs).

We have not seen anyone's warranty voided as of yet (at least on these forums) for just a tune...so one could assume the relative risk is low)...but the risk is still there...


And don't you see the irony in saying that you wouldn't warranty your own product after I had tampered with it?

Again, since GM cant see our tunes in the PCM, this is a moot point, unless you are using another tuner to flash your car.

I also do not agree with what Number3 has said about GM magical abilities, but hey, its up to you guys! Bottom line is, we have lots of happy customers here, and NONE with any issues relating to warranty, so things are good.

[brtaus]

Originally Posted by themossman

This entire thread is about voided warranties and tunes...

I know but I am not talking about the entire thread.

Here, let's recap:

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

Yeah, that wont fly....


Lets clarify, once more here....

When used properly, the tunes we provide will not cause any problems in your car.

Now, if you have it custom tuned, and all TM turned off, and timing cranked to the moon, well, yeah, you could have a problem there, if the tune causes a problem and you try to get it fixed under warranty.

The part bolded is what you bolded and are talking about in the underlined part. So, correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying they need to supply a warranty to the end user, so if the end users warranty is voided by GM b/c of their tune, then they will cover the repair... is that right?

The bolded part, which is what they said, has nothing to do with a warranty, either by GM or them. He is simply saying that if you use their product as directed, their product will not cause an issue with your car. Meaning, if you don't know what in the hell you are doing and you change parameters you know nothing about, then there will be issues with the car and you will have to take the car to the dealer for repair. But how is that their fault? They told you how to use it and if you don't know how to use some of the features, don't mess with them and if you mess with them and don't know what you are doing, they are not responsible.