Vararam & other CAIs: Are you addressing the erratic MAF signals they generate?

[RWTD]

First off, this is NOT a minor issue to anyone reading this. It's IMPORTANT, and it needs to be handled for proper tuning. Going on...

Specifically to Vararam: I'd like to know, as I'm sure the rest of the enthusiasts on here and other forums would, are you attempting to address the erratic MAF signal that your new kits on the GTO and G8 creates? I can't say that this is happening on a new Camaro, as I haven't tuned one in person yet, but the design is near identical, so I can't help but to think the same thing would happen. This does not happen on your C5 and C6 kits, FYI.

The signals are so noisy/erratic, that proper tuning of the MAF transfer is basically impossible. It also causes erratic timing delivery. All this contributes to an erratic power delivery. The only correction that I feel could rectify this would be to add in a screen system. This has been talked about and done by a few over on HP Tuners site, with great results.

Now, to be fair, readings from a factory car are not the cleanest on the '04-'06 GTO, new G8, and new Camaro. The cleanest I've ever seen is on an F-Body, or C5 or C6. However, your new kits for these cars actually makes this signal worse. Futhermore, it's not just your kit, as I've seen this with other kits, as well. Yours just seems the worse.

I will be putting up graphs from the GTO and G8 to show what I'm talking of soon.

Thank you!

[Jeanius]

[wbt]

One word:

Halltech

[SwiftCat]

After switching from the Vararam to an ADM race, I've noticed about the same gains between each according to the butt-dyno...and all the surging/bucking issues are history. I still haven't upgraded my tune for the ADM yet...soon though.

[SGOS252382]

Jeremy Formato (www.fasterproms.net) tuned my L99 A6 with Vararam Tune only intake, Kooks Long tubes, and a Magnaflow catback.
My car is running great. Jeremy didn't say anything to me about their being an issue with tuning my car.

I'll have to wait until next winter to see how it runs in cooler air. It 80+ degrees everyday down here in S.W. Florida.

[RWTD]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

Jeremy Formato (www.fasterproms.net) tuned my L99 A6 with Vararam Tune only intake, Kooks Long tubes, and a Magnaflow catback.
My car is running great. Jeremy didn't say anything to me about their being an issue with tuning my car.

I'll have to wait until next winter to see how it runs in cooler air. It 80+ degrees everyday down here in S.W. Florida.

Not saying this was the case with yours, but some tuners only care about getting their $, and not doing what is best for the customer (and for their future business). Futhermore, some tuners don't have the experience to understand all of this in reality (yes, believe it or not).

If you were my customer, and the MAF was erratic while I was tuning it, that would be one of the very first things I'd inform you of, explain to you what's happening, and why this is bad, and what you can do to correct it. As a matter of fact, I actually go to the extreme and show each and every step of the tuning process and datalogs to my customers (it's the little things that count). You'd be shocked at how much cleaner a power curve is with a non-erratic MAF signal. There's 1 to 5+ rwhp/rwtq that can be lost throughout each rpm increment, due to an erratic MAF signal.

[ron10]

is this happening after the car has had a tune or after the install of a cai on a car with no tune.

[TAG UR IT]

after the install of the VR w/out a tune.

I took mine out. If you are getting a tune, from what I understand, you will be fine. If you are not getting a tune, get ready to have bucking. I tried several units and we just couldn't get it to work for my car. Two things: 1.) After taking it out, the constant bucking is GONE and 2.) I sure as sh!t lost a lot of torque and hp....very noticable after removing it. And that? That SUCKS.

[RWTD]

Originally Posted by ron10

is this happening after the car has had a tune or after the install of a cai on a car with no tune.

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

after the install of the VR w/out a tune.

I took mine out. If you are getting a tune, from what I understand, you will be fine. If you are not getting a tune, get ready to have bucking. I tried several units and we just couldn't get it to work for my car. Two things: 1.) After taking it out, the constant bucking is GONE and 2.) I sure as sh!t lost a lot of torque and hp....very noticable after removing it. And that? That SUCKS.

It's happening after the tune, as TAG stated. However, a tune can NOT correct for a noisy MAF signal, regardless of what a tuner may state to you. The flow going over the meter still is erratic.

The bucking is generally due to a number of issues, mainly VE is now off, and of course the MAF transfer is usually off with the aftermarket CAI (due to the change in velocity and placement of MAF). Spark modification can help, as well, but not all vehicles can gain much more spark over factory in the lower airflow/load ranges. But, as I stated above, the erratic MAF signal still persists, and thus power delivery will thus suffer (notice I said "delivery", not gains).

Too many of the CAI manufacturers are just rushing their kits to the market to capitalize on the profits, all without giving any notion to proper function. If it looks good, it must work, right? If tuner B states it has created all these power gains, it must do such, right? If the manufacturer claims that it can lower temperatures to less than ambient, they must be sniffing crack, right?

[axis]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

after the install of the VR w/out a tune.

I took mine out. If you are getting a tune, from what I understand, you will be fine. If you are not getting a tune, get ready to have bucking. I tried several units and we just couldn't get it to work for my car. Two things: 1.) After taking it out, the constant bucking is GONE and 2.) I sure as sh!t lost a lot of torque and hp....very noticable after removing it. And that? That SUCKS.

What intake are you running now?

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

I really think where the MAF is it needs to have a tune to fix things. I played and played with it. Mine is off right now. PQ bought me a CAI Industires intake for fixing his office computer system after it crashed. That works real good. Will see when I am ready to blow my warranty about the Vararam with a tune.

[GMRULZ]

ADM race here, drives awesome. No bucking or surging, plus the top 1/4 and 1/8th mile fastest bolt-on only L99`s are running it...

[SK360]

Originally Posted by RWTD

First off, this is NOT a minor issue to anyone reading this. It's IMPORTANT, and it needs to be handled for proper tuning. Going on...

Specifically to Vararam: I'd like to know, as I'm sure the rest of the enthusiasts on here and other forums would, are you attempting to address the erratic MAF signal that your new kits on the GTO and G8 creates? I can't say that this is happening on a new Camaro, as I haven't tuned one in person yet, but the design is near identical, so I can't help but to think the same thing would happen. This does not happen on your C5 and C6 kits, FYI.

The signals are so noisy/erratic, that proper tuning of the MAF transfer is basically impossible. It also causes erratic timing delivery. All this contributes to an erratic power delivery. The only correction that I feel could rectify this would be to add in a screen system. This has been talked about and done by a few over on HP Tuners site, with great results.

Now, to be fair, readings from a factory car are not the cleanest on the '04-'06 GTO, new G8, and new Camaro. The cleanest I've ever seen is on an F-Body, or C5 or C6. However, your new kits for these cars actually makes this signal worse. Futhermore, it's not just your kit, as I've seen this with other kits, as well. Yours just seems the worse.

I will be putting up graphs from the GTO and G8 to show what I'm talking of soon.

Thank you!

James,

My favorite solution involves throwing the MAF in the trash...

But as shown by the replies in this thread you are talking about things WAY over 99% of the memberships head here.

Once again people, a tune will not correct an erratic MAF. lol.

[axis]

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

I really think where the MAF is it needs to have a tune to fix things. I played and played with it. Mine is off right now. PQ bought me a CAI Industires intake for fixing his office computer system after it crashed. That works real good. Will see when I am ready to blow my warranty about the Vararam with a tune.

The problem that RWTD mentions and what several of us have eluded to all along is that it's not so much a issue of needing to be tuned, but a problem of smoothing the airflow out. Given that there's a VERY short run before the MAF, the air doesn't have time to smooth out before it's being read by the MAF. Add into it that, the PCV valve nipple is almost directly across from the MAF. I can't say for sure but I doubt it helps the situation. It could possibly help if there was a velocity stack of sorts in the initial plenum, but I doubt there's much room for that. A screen would probably cure the bucking but it would hurt the HP numbers. It's a cool design and a VERY nice looking intake, but there are definitely issues with it. It would be nice to have a trusted vendor, without a stake in the outcome, give the lowdown on what's really going on with the airflow. Seeing that there's about 250 of these units out there, i'm surprised no one has posted any of this info.