GM pays back US & Canadian loans way early

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Who do you think has the final say regarding board selection? Who can add or remove board members anytime they want? Answer - the owners of a corporation. Owning bonds makes you a creditor, not an owner.

You repeatedly mention the word "can." Have you not seen, as proven by my responses to you, that there is only potential for government influence?

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

However the money was originally sourced from the US government, not from GM profits. That would be like this:

Sam: You're having a hard time, I'm going to give you $5,000

Max: Oh thanks! This will really help.

Tom: I'm also going to help you with this loan..for $3,000.

Max: Oh thanks! This will really help!

*two months later*

Tom: I dont need all of this..so I'm going to repay Tom's LOAN with money from SAM.

Essentially GM hasnt paid out any of its hard earned money at all. They havent paid out any money from their own profits, all they've done is paid off one loan from the government..with money GIVEN to it by the government.

I don't see why everyone is using 3 objects in their analogies. The government gave GM money, and GM returned the money to the government. GM is one object and the government is one object, and I was taught 1+1=2.

[Sax1031]

The government gave GM money that they then used to pay the government back with.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The government gave GM money that they then used to pay the government back with.

Which, at the very least, means they simply returned the unused money.

[Tal]

GM made a good move here, being able to use money gained from the TARP equity purchase to pay off the loans is a good thing but GM and the White House tried to spin it into a big PR win which simply isn't appropriate while the taxpayer is stuck with so much invested in GM and no real idea of when or even how much they of it they will get back. What makes it even worse is that GM payed off a loan of 7% owed to the government ahead of schedule instead of a smaller $2.5 billion 9% loan owed to the unions which just makes the PR crap even more obvious. I hope GM succeeds in their turn around but I'm not going to pretend obvious PR stunts are some great accomplishment.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Which, at the very least, means they simply returned the unused money.

I wouldn't call paying back a government loan with other money from the government as returning unused money personally.

And by government I mean taxpayer.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I wouldn't call paying back a government loan with other money from the government as returning unused money personally.

And by government I mean taxpayer.

Call it whatever you want, but no matter how you try to spin it the government was repaid $6.7B.

BTW, any new updates?

[Sax1031]

Yes the government paid itself 6.7 billion dollars on the loan.

Just means the tax payer got hosed on that whole deal.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Personally I don't think GM should have had to pay back one red cent...

Eff it...

During the last 100 Years GM has employed almost as many people as the Federal Gov't... on many occasions kept this country from being in several DEPRESSIONS... instead of Recessions.

Bottom line is that the only thing to argue here is about PUBLIC RELATIONS... They should have said:

"WE GAVE BACK $6.7 Billion because quite frankly... we don't need it anymore..."

Of course that then would have then opened a whole new bunch of questions pertaining to the lying about needing it in the first place.


Hell... GM U should have just went Chapt &.. and thrown this sorry ungrateful "Continent" in a Depression like they have never seen.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Which, at the very least, means they simply returned the unused money.

This is EXACTLY what happened... This argument is over Semantics.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Call it whatever you want, but no matter how you try to spin it the government was repaid $6.7B.

BTW, any new updates?

Yes, but the government was repaid $6.7B with $6.7B of the government's money. Imagine if you had $2000 in credit card debt. If you took out a $2000 cash advance from that same credit card to pay off the initial balance, you still owe $2000. You just owe it for something else on paper. GM basically took out a loan to pay the loan. They old loan is paid off, but it wasn't paid down, it was just refinanced into a new, different loan.

On a side note, isn't it amazing how there can be so many different opinions on what is acceptable and what works in accounting. When did accounting stop being a means to accurately keep track to the finances, and turn into a shady, purposely complex, and obscure gimmick game? If I tried to keep track of my check book the same way GM under the government did, I'd be put in jail.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Personally I don't think GM should have had to pay back one red cent...

Because they ran their selves into the ground and had to beg for money to stay a business they should not have to pay anything back.

Are you serious?

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Yes, but the government was repaid $6.7B with $6.7B of the government's money. Imagine if you had $2000 in credit card debt. If you took out a $2000 cash advance from that same credit card to pay off the initial balance, you still owe $2000. You just owe it for something else on paper. GM basically took out a loan to pay the loan. They old loan is paid off, but it wasn't paid down, it was just refinanced into a new, different loan.

On a side note, isn't it amazing how there can be so many different opinions on what is acceptable and what works in accounting. When did accounting stop being a means to accurately keep track to the finances, and turn into a shady, purposely complex, and obscure gimmick game? If I tried to keep track of my check book the same way GM under the government did, I'd be put in jail.

The tarp money they used to pay off the loan was not a loan itself. So they owe nothing else back technically.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The tarp money they used to pay off the loan was not a loan itself. So they owe nothing else back technically.

I've always thought TARP money was a loan. If the TARP money wasn't a loan, what was it? A gift?