Drawbacks to a mail order tune

[herkman]

First of all, this post isn't meant to bash anyone. I ordered the Vector tune when I bought my headers and CAI and they did a great job of putting a tune together for me. The car ran and dynoed great. Well after Camaro Fest, I decided that I had to have a cam and after talking to Ron at Vengeance, I knew they were not only a grest bunch of guys but professionals as well. I e-mailed Vector with the specs of my new cam and they sent me an updated tune.
Yesterday I took time off from work and drove the 70 miles to Vengeance, rented a car, and then drove home. I went back today and the car was finished and ready for me to install my tune. Well the car wouldn't start! After about 10 attempts it finally cranked and they heat cycled the cam and filled the coolant system. They then changed the oil and it was ready for the dyno. Of course everytime they had to start the car, it took six or seven attempts. They said they would be able to tell on the dyno if the tune had taken. They disconnected one of the O2 sensors on the cat for test equipment. Well the tune was way off and the air fuel mixture was off the charts. the tune was very erratic (not at 13?) and they were going to just retune it for me but the Vector program locked the PCM. They tried to call Vector but there was no answer. Well I was stuck without a car, needing to make a quick decision and knew that it would be days before this could get straightened out via mail order. Ron called the local dealer and found out that I could have a PCM overnighted by tomorrow, so that was the decision I made. Ron finally got ahold of Vector but there was nothing they could do at the moment. So here I am with a $500+ wasted tune and had to but a laptop to boot!. I learned a valuable lesson that it's best to keep your business at home. The Vengeance tune by the way is alot newer technology than the other and I am a preferred customer now and they will always be there to back it up.

[Jeanius]

I feel even better now about my decision to keep it local, thanks for the feedback

[drhoades]

Anyone know if flashing back to the stock tune with the vector program unlocks it?

[herkman]

It does not. I have the stock tune in my laptop and I guess once it goes through the software, it's locked also. Along with putting the stock tune back in twice, my tach would not work and my cam position sensor started throwing codes. There was nothing vengeance could do for me and they have the latest technology. The car runs like a raped ape once you get it started but the start-up fuel/air mixture is screwed up and all through the dyno process was not reading what it is supposed to.

[kelley@vectormotorsports]

Originally Posted by herkman

It does not. I have the stock tune in my laptop and I guess once it goes through the software, it's locked also. Along with putting the stock tune back in twice, my tach would not work and my cam position sensor started throwing codes. There was nothing vengeance could do for me and they have the latest technology. The car runs like a raped ape once you get it started but the start-up fuel/air mixture is screwed up and all through the dyno process was not reading what it is supposed to.

WOW. I am not in the shop for one day and this happens. If you would read your instructions this would not happen.

All you needed to do is disconnect the negative battery cable (AS CLEARLY STATED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS) after reflashing to your stock tune. This would have re-set all of your vehicle modules and fixed the problem. If you remember correctly you were asked to do this when you first put your tune in, and you did as your car ran correctly.

So they have the latest technology, but do not know how to perform a simple re-set of the vehicle?

[kelley@vectormotorsports]

Originally Posted by drhoades

Anyone know if flashing back to the stock tune with the vector program unlocks it?

Yes, in the over 1500 remote tunes our customers have performed with this system is always does.

[herkman]

I apologize to you Kirk but A major performance Chevrolet dealer re-learned my PCM to reset the crank position parameters and the car seems to be fine now. They said their software was able to override yours. I did not disconnect the battery cable and they said that does not need to be done for any reason. Also the shop that put the cam in said they have done over a thousand tunes and never had to disconnect the battery. I have also got a few PM's from your competitors on here and they said disconnecting the battery does nothing. Like I said, the car is running fine now. What would you have done if you were a long way from home and your car wouldn't start because the tune somehow had a negative effect and you were in a bind to make a quick decision? Vengeance was concerned enough to overnight a new PCM to me so that the problem could be rectified. I had to choose between waiting for a new tune that might work or having a shop that could do a tune immediately. Luckily, they were proactive enough to try a Chevy dealer as a last resort. I still have your tune installed and have been happy with your customer service. Once again, I apologize because this was by no means an attempt to slam Vector.

[Treefrog]

Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports

WOW. I am not in the shop for one day and this happens. If you would read your instructions this would not happen.

All you needed to do is disconnect the negative battery cable (AS CLEARLY STATED IN THE INSTRUCTIONS) after reflashing to your stock tune. This would have re-set all of your vehicle modules and fixed the problem. If you remember correctly you were asked to do this when you first put your tune in, and you did as your car ran correctly.

So they have the latest technology, but do not know how to perform a simple re-set of the vehicle?

you get NO days off! your public needs you!! haha

[2SSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by herkman

I apologize to you Kirk but A major performance Chevrolet dealer re-learned my PCM to reset the crank position parameters and the car seems to be fine now. They said their software was able to override yours. I did not disconnect the battery cable and they said that does not need to be done for any reason. Also the shop that put the cam in said they have done over a thousand tunes and never had to disconnect the battery. I have also got a few PM's from your competitors on here and they said disconnecting the battery does nothing. Like I said, the car is running fine now. What would you have done if you were a long way from home and your car wouldn't start because the tune somehow had a negative effect and you were in a bind to make a quick decision? Vengeance was concerned enough to overnight a new PCM to me so that the problem could be rectified. I had to choose between waiting for a new tune that might work or having a shop that could do a tune immediately. Luckily, they were proactive enough to try a Chevy dealer as a last resort. I still have your tune installed and have been happy with your customer service. Once again, I apologize because this was by no means an attempt to slam Vector.

huh??????? How do you #1 get a new PCM delivered, #2 the dealer "relearned the PCM to reset the crank position parameters (sounds like the old ECM) #3 the dealer was able to overide the Vector tune (again sounds like the original ECM) and #4 Vectors tune is still installed on your ECM. Are you saying that the dealer wrote to an aftermarket program installed on your original ECM??? BTW regardless of what your pro tuner and the dealership allegedly said, HPT beta software and VMS software for the 2010 camaros both need the negative battery terminal removed for about 5 minutes after a write to prevent problems such as you experienced and hard starting.

[Ron@Vengeance]

Originally Posted by Kirk@VectorMotorsports

So they have the latest technology, but do not know how to perform a simple re-set of the vehicle?

Kirk, all sarcastic comments aside. I encouraged the customer MANY times to work with Vector on this. I even called you personally to explain the problems we were working against. After several ignition cycles we were finally able to throw a DTC for crankshaft correlation. We knew at this point the tune was not the issue, BUT we could not perform a case relearn using our EFI Live OR Tech II because the PCM is locked. Not being up to speed on Vector tunes the only other option was to get a new PCM and start from scratch. Today when the PCM arrived we went to our local GM dealer to flash the VIN into the new PCM. Luckily they were able to complete a case relearn with the original computer and the car has been running/driving great with no starting issues.

FWIW, Vengeance Racing tunes with EFI Live software and there is ZERO need to disconnect the battery for ANY reason after making any sort of PCM/TCM changes. I apologize for not being more educated on your software.

In regard to the tune, the customer needs to email you a copy of the air fuel so you can make a few tweaks. Air fue ranges from 12.7 to 13.6 and timing spikes to 31* and drops to 22/21 thru the run.

All things considered the car performed very well for a mail order tune.

I appreciate you returning my call yesterday and thank you for your willingness to help out. We now know to disconnect the PCM after making a change with Vector tunes

[DSteck]

For whatever reason, it seems the FPCM doesn't get reset with some flashing systems... hence the battery disconnect route. Boy, it's annoying.

[herkman]

Ron,

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I can't explain it like you guys, the experts can. I know I sounded like a dweeb on here, I had two PM's from big tuning software companies on here that both also said the battey cables do not need to be disconnected and that the tune itself should reset the PCM. I guess Vector uses different technology. Kirk, no disrespect to you but I am just the customer with no experience in these matters, and all I saw was a $40,000 paperweight.

[DSteck]

I'm genuinely interested in why a CASE relearn was required from a PCM reflash. I wonder if that was just a fluke of two things coinciding.

[kelley@vectormotorsports]

Originally Posted by herkman

Ron,

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I can't explain it like you guys, the experts can. I know I sounded like a dweeb on here, I had two PM's from big tuning software companies on here that both also said the battey cables do not need to be disconnected and that the tune itself should reset the PCM. I guess Vector uses different technology. Kirk, no disrespect to you but I am just the customer with no experience in these matters, and all I saw was a $40,000 paperweight.

I understand. That is why we include in all of our instructions that you MUST disconnect the battery after installing any new calibation (including stock). If not you will get every one of the symptoms you listed.

No matter what anybody else says, I believe we know our software better. So no matter what they say, disconnect the battery after installing a new calibration and you will never have a problem.