Thoughts about building a California legal camaro?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ddavis

Ok guys, Im not leaving from CA anytime soon so im gonna have to make the best of the laws out here. I picked up a SS camaro a couple of weeks back and I already started to toy with it a little . I figured I might as well start with a maggie supercharger since its carb legal so thats headed my way. I ordered a mbrp catback exhaust also but thats the list pretty much for engine performance. I cant seem to find any intakes that have carb numbers, long tube headers are illegal here, and a cam seems questionable. So a few questions maybe the guys that know these new camaros better then me could help answer.

1) I know shorty headers dont add much from the dyno's ive seen, but do you think I would benefit from them more considering Im running a maggie?

That's a good question. It seems we don't have a truly clear answer on NA cars; there are threads out there that have tested shorties, little no real success, however, there aren't a lot of independent third party tests out there. I'd assume there would be at least a little more benefit if you're going FI'. I can't prove it either way though :(

2) Increasing the psi on the maggie with a smaller pulley seems like a option if I up the fuel some, but considering the airflow is bottled necked by the stock intake/exhaust it doesnt seem that would be efficient, thoughts?

This is a route I'd be interested in, however, there are/could be problems with the warranty on the Maggy and if you get their CARB label. It was recently posted that if you get their CARB-legal kit, and they know you modify it in anyway that would effect emissions, you won't get a CARB label. I AM really abbreviating the whole thing, but that's the bottom line. Don't post here that that's what you want to do, lol. As far is being able to do it, those details withstanding - YES. Some believe the OEM intake is not the bottleneck. You get a replacement inlet, so the baffles on the OEM inlet are removed. There are manufacturers that are altering the orientation of the OEM airbox for less restriction, but keeping the OEM carbon trap (I don't know if it's actually permamently affixed to the box or not; I know that I've read of another company possibly transferring it to their airbox )

It also seems the biggest bottle neck in the OEM exhaust are the cats'/down pipes. You don't have any legal choices there though...

3) To the guys with the cams are you throwing codes? Also not sure how a car with a cam would fair on a smog machine. Im guessing something not to radical would pass. Anybody running one here in cali? thoughts?

There are no CARB-legal cams. There used to be cheater cams out there for LS1s, but nothing with CARB-numbers. Perhaps you could see if there are other OEM cams that would be better than the LS3 cam, and go with that. I'm positive you wouldn't run into trouble doing something like that.

Originally Posted by ddavis

I didnt think any intakes have gotten carb approval yet.

Originally Posted by ddavis

I thought about this and its how Ive done it before, but by legal I mean if I get pulled over by a cop and he asks me to pop my hood everything will check out ok. I know the chances of this happening is slim though. I may just end up running a 3.6 pulley on my maggie with the stock intake/exhaust besides my mbrp catback. Although just the fact of knowing im capping alot of possible hp kills me a little inside, lol. My goals are 500+ at the wheels. I figure I would be just short of that with the catback, maggie on stock pulley, and tune. My easiest option im thinking is to just run a slightly smaller pulley (3.6) and hit my mark as long as the fuel can stay in a safe range. I guess i will see.

My other option I thought of would be to add shorty headers and possibly a ls9 mild cam. But the costs of those installed and purchased outweighs the maggie pulley upgrade by alot and the performance numbers would be similar im guessing.

IMVHO - I think you're on the right track. You should be pretty dang close right out of the box with the Maggy. If you don't care about keeping warranty, and as long as you have the CARB-sticker, unless there are provisions to measure the pulley and the officer being able to actually see what the pulley size is supposed to be, I don't think you'll have a problem. What I can't remember is, is if there is a label, on the end of the blower snout, that has a label that says not to be replaced unless it's OFF-ROAD on the Maggy. I've seen them on other SCs, but I can't remember if that's the case here. If there, indeed, isn't one, I really doubt the officer is going to be able to do all the research and verify you're not running the legal pulley. That was the direction I was actually considering, given I could actually prove what I posted above.

Originally Posted by brandotron

You also have to pass the visual inspection.

And not throw any flags to officers that pull you over and want to peek under the hood...

Originally Posted by ddavis

I have to present a carb number to them if asked upon while smogging when they do the visual. If you get pulled over by a cop and he asks to look at your engine you best have carb numbers to show or fines/towing can happen.

Been there - done that...

Originally Posted by Beyond Limits

In all honesty, if a CHP or local wants to pull you over because they have "reasonable cause" to believe that you have modified your vehicle they are going to do it regardless. Now depending on how you act with the officer, or even the mood they are in it really does not matter if there are CARB OE numbers for your intake, etc as they are going to give you a hard time. As a general rule if you were not acting like a jack-off and racing around the streets and you are polite to the officer if you get pulled over the odds are good that you are going to be fine. And worst case on your intake for example you get a fix-it-ticket, put your OEM intake back on and get it signed off. Cat-back exhausts do not require OE numbers since they are deemed to not impact emissions in any way. However the measurable sound level at the pipe has to be less then 95db. This is per a law passed in 2002 that was pushed by SEMA. However, again if an officer pulls you over and you rub him the wrong way you can get a ticket for that as well since there is an even older law on the books to prevent modifications to the vehicle that allow expelled engine noise (read exhaust note) to exceed that of OEM levels.

A good buddy of mine that is a CHP officer described it best. Remember, most of these laws were actually put on the books because of the street racing scene that was really pushed by the rice rocket movement in the 90's. The idea for example of an officer pulling you over with probable cause for illegal engine modifications comes from this kind of logic: If you are driving a lowered vehicle, with racing style wings and body kits, and the vehicle looks race ready, and you have an non-stock exhaust (a simple visual inspection, ie check for a grapefruit shooter in the back) then there is reasonable suspicion to believe that you have also modded the intake, downpipes, etc etc.

The bottom line is if you look like you fit the drifter street racing profile, or you drive like a jack-off you are going to get hit at some point in time. But very few officers are going to pull you over in your Camaro simply because they believe you have modded your car unless you give them reason to. And if you do come across an officer that pulls you over for mods to your 'maro then you could have all of your parts CARB OE numbers on a spreadsheet printed on parchment paper and leather bound and it still won't matter. Odds are good he is going to give you a hard time, so be nice to him, realize that he is only doing his job, and deal with whatever may happen. But odds are good nothing will come of it.

As for parts with CARB OE numbers, cat-back exhausts do not need an OE number. There are currently no CAI's with OE numbers. If you are ever wondering about a part CARB has an online database that you can check. :

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php

I know this is long winded, but hopefully it helps in some way...

One of the best posts ever

Regarding the exhaust volume: My '02, with OEM manifolds, cats', and Y-pipe failed this test using a totally "legal" Borla adjustable CB. I had the closed plate in there, so all the exhaust was going through the muffler, and it still failed. The test requires the sound measurement to be take at half the engine redline, so if you want to make sure you're within limits, you'd have to run that LS3 to 3250 and see what the readings are. That's what I get for driving around with mid's, no cats', an open cutout, and a big stall, LOL!

[ddavis]

wow great info guys! much appreciated.

[Rockin the BlueSS]

has anyone ever had a problem getting smogged? i had an aftermarket intake on my 98 and never had anyone say anything even the smog guys... i didn't think the intake needed a CARB number. the stock intake doesn't have anything on it

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Rockin the BlueSS

has anyone ever had a problem getting smogged? i had an aftermarket intake on my 98 and never had anyone say anything even the smog guys... i didn't think the intake needed a CARB number. the stock intake doesn't have anything on it

In all fairness - I had to take my '02 to the ref' twice, and both times, it had the SLP lid on it. However, it had no functional emissions devices in it; the only thing it needed was the port for the air pump. These new intakes have those carbon filters for the fuel (I'm guessing). Without one of those, no CAI is going to get a CARB-number.

[Beyond Limits]

Originally Posted by Rockin the BlueSS

has anyone ever had a problem getting smogged? i had an aftermarket intake on my 98 and never had anyone say anything even the smog guys... i didn't think the intake needed a CARB number. the stock intake doesn't have anything on it

Yes, aftermarket intakes do need CARB EO numbers. The stock intake does not need a CARB number because it is OEM equipment, and was an integral component to the vehicle when it was certified to meet the necessary emission standards.

[v6sonoma]

Originally Posted by ddavis

Ive lived in alot of different places and love it out here the most. I dont think I would want to ever leave. Thanks on the cam info. The engine light would fail me for sure and that was one of my concerns. I just got tired of trying to always trick the carb system, so i want to play by the books this time around.




Are you sure on the intake? I dont see any carb #'s listed for the blackwing.

I believe it is because when I talked to Dave Hamburger of SLP he explained that the reason they did it the way they did (just eliminating the silencers and a high flow filter) was so that the ZL's could remain 50 state legal. Keep in mind it uses the stock airbox and just replaces the tube and filter.

[Milk 1027]

If you go with maggie. Make sure you get the CARB sticker first.

I know someone on here ran into trouble when they wanted to get the sticker and they were refused because they weren't running it with other stock parts.
Your intake and exhaust has to be stock (or what was provided by magnacharger) in order to recieve the sticker.


After that you're all good on the rest.







2 more years and I'm moving back to Texas. Or Chicago. I don't want to stay in California mainly for this and other reasons.

[macwest]

I live in cali also, I was thinking of shory headers are any carb legal and if so which one?

[radz28]

Doug Thorley's are the only shorties I'm aware of. I imagine we'll see something from Borla, Edelbrock, and Gibson come eventually, but I haven't seen numbers from BBK and JBA.

[radz28]

Remember - JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE SHORTIES, DOESN'T MAKE THEM SMOG-LEGAL!!! GET THE NUMBERS AND TAGS BECAUSE UNLESS THE OFFICER OR REF' CAN SEE THEM, YOU CAN GET IN TROUBLE.

[TK]

Personally, for registration purposes, I would just find a shady shop/mechanic that will sign it all off for a tip, regardless of how many modifications you have.

And if a cop is searching your vehicle for mods after a pull over, its probably cause you are an ass, or were driving like an ass.

[macwest]

Originally Posted by radz28

Remember - JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE SHORTIES, DOESN'T MAKE THEM SMOG-LEGAL!!! GET THE NUMBERS AND TAGS BECAUSE UNLESS THE OFFICER OR REF' CAN SEE THEM, YOU CAN GET IN TROUBLE.

when you buy them don't they come with a carb sticker?

[brandotron]

Originally Posted by TK

Personally, for registration purposes, I would just find a shady shop/mechanic that will sign it all off for a tip, regardless of how many modifications you have.

And if a cop is searching your vehicle for mods after a pull over, its probably cause you are an ass, or were driving like an ass.

That is waaay expensive and will be negated if you get pulled over and searched again. And like you said, if you're getting searched it's probably because you were driving like a maniac--pretty likely it would happen again.

Originally Posted by macwest

when you buy them don't they come with a carb sticker?

The issue is with some of the newer systems. The Maggie is CARB certified, but Edelbrock and all of the Cetri's are still pending certification.

[Milk 1027]

Like I said. The magnacharger is CARB legal with all other parts stock.