Muffler Delete? - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

phenixdragon · 07-01-2010, 01:32 AM

Got my car back and it sounds WAY better then stock. I actually still think it's pretty quiet. I have had 5.0s that have been louder then this with mufflers, cats, etc...I had thought I was buying black chrome tips but I guess the guy was talking about the smoke steel, which looks pretty good too. It gives it like a mirror type look to it which i think matches better as it matches pretty closely to the wheels. It's still pretty quit cruising and when ideal but it sounds more throaty. You do here the popping being louder which my wife hates but I like it.

I probably will have this shop do my headers instead of trying to do it myself. I am pretty impressed and they even made sure the tips are right in the middle of the hole.

Now they may actually be a bit too far out, which great on how the car is but I do want to get the GM body kit which makes the tip area look square which I think looks awesome on this car. So I may have them put them back in but it will be awhile before I get this body added. Got some other things I want done first.

I was thinking of using the stock tips but I figure this is just easier and I do like the smoke. I was even of thinking of keeping the mufflers in my garage but what am I going to do with them? I don't plan on putting them on again and I don't think anyone wants to buy them.

So all in all I am very happy and wish I did this on day one. Probably would have done this over tinting...well maybe not since I hate people being able to see inside. Total was like $270. If I just went with the normal stainless steel it would have been like $200, it was about $70 more for the smoked steel.

hypnatic · 07-01-2010, 02:01 AM

ur car may be a lil quicker if u do a muffler delete cuz you'll be shaving off some pounds from the vehicle... i think those mufflers weigh about 30lbs a piece!!!

phenixdragon · 07-01-2010, 02:02 AM

I was also reading somewhere else that removing them maybe also frees up 10 rwhp, but I can't confirm or deny that.

kbui · 07-01-2010, 09:23 AM

If you are going with OEM GFX, you should look at MBRP's square/rectangular tips. They are very nice inside that bezel but a bit expensive.

fourmz · 07-01-2010, 12:08 PM

I just had the delete done yesterday and it was way better than I thought it would be. It has a nice growl to it and only decel popped once on me.

green man · 07-01-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourmz

I just had the delete done yesterday and it was way better than I thought it would be. It has a nice growl to it and only decel popped once on me.

I guess you don't engine brake then...

jtzako · 07-01-2010, 03:25 PM

The Autos dont really do the Decel Popping thing unless you are in Manual mode. You can hear it on start up but that is about it. As for freeing up RWHP, I doubt it, the restriction point on these cars is the Cats, not the manifold/muffler as much. Unless you replace the Cats I doubt removing the Mufflers would do anything for power (other than reduce it due to less backpressure perhaps)

fourmz · 07-02-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by green man

I guess you don't engine brake then...

Actually, the way my goofy little town is laid out ( 2 small towns with a huge circle rack for a highway system linking them together) engine braking does not happen that much. But, after driving around for a little while I do see exactly what you mean. I still love it though

SGOS252382 · 07-02-2010, 11:50 AM

Future plans?

Muffler delete all by itself (without headers and high flow cats) isn't that loud and a lot of guys seem to like it.

But if your future plans include long tube headers, I'd think about a different setup. Lots of guys that went the muffler delete (stock) have since purchased exhausts to quiet down their cars with headers.

longbeachss2010 · 07-02-2010, 12:23 PM

so if u got lt header high flow cats and muffer delete and resonator delete. it will be to load and have cops on u

Wilburbeest · 07-03-2010, 07:49 AM

Ok, if I hear "you'll lose power because you don't have enough back pressure" one more time I may possibly harm myself. First lets think of the job of a performance exhaust system. Its job is to evacuate gasses from the cylinders AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.

Now lets look at the definition of back pressure from Wikipedia since its the first one I found and is easy to understand.

"Back pressure refers to the resistance to a moving fluid by obstructions or tight bends in the confinement vessel along which it is moving, such as piping or air vents, against its direction of flow."

To just bring the point home a little more, in an extreme case this would force exhaust back into your cylinders. WHY WOULD YOU WANT THIS IN AN EXHAUST? EVER?! This myth partially came from some old carbureted engines where when you put on a free flowing exhaust (headers and the like) without properly rejetting the carb the car would run lean, thus creating a loss of power. In some cases newer cars need a tune to fully take advantage of a very free flowing setup as well. HOWEVER, if your piping was really just entirely too big for your setup (and I mean really way too big. My stock internal LT1 is fine with 3" duals but no way you'd want to go any bigger for that app. Probably a perfect fit for your LS3 though. If I did not have future plans I would have gone smaller diameter) it is still true that you would loose some low end power. This is not because of a lack of back pressure though. The term you'd be looking for here is POSITIVE DELTA PRESSURE (likewise, back pressure would cause negative delta pressure, or delta p.)

"DELTA PRESSURE (aka delta P): Describes the pressure drop through a component and is the difference in pressure between two points"

In laymans terms, positive delta p is more or less the vaccuum created by your exhaust system, also often called SCAVENGING. As exhaust piping gets bigger and bigger, the positive delta p will drop, however the overall flow will keep going up until you hit a certain point. Granted generally (in my bit of experience) you have to seriously overdo your pipe diameter by epic proportions to loose significant amounts of low end power, the ideal goal would (again, we're talking GENERALLY) be to use the smallest piping you can without impairing flow at the top of the engine's operating range. However I will reiterate, back pressure is nowhere in that equation other than that its something you don't want! If you stuffed a rag in your muffler would it give you more torque? HELL NO!

If you want a really great writeup to read on this here is one I found a while back and actually referenced a little just now.

http://my.prostreetonline.com/forums...ead.php?t=1639

/end rant

My whole point in the novel I just wrote? you'll be just fine with no mufflers

Also, sometimes what people are feeling when they have "less low end power" I think is probably more like they have more up top, not necessarily less down low. I have heard all types of "blah blah I pulled my muffler and cat blah blah have less low end blah blah blah" But have I ever seen this supported on a dyno? Not once. The butt dyno (seat of the pants) can be very deceiving.

Camaro2SSLS3 · 07-03-2010, 10:09 PM

I just did this on my car today and it sounds so awesome. Used the factory tail pipes, cost me one stick of tubing and thats it (my brother has a exhaust bender) I highly reccomend doing this!!

NoMercy · 07-04-2010, 12:48 PM

I did the muffler delete and reused the stock tips. Sound was great! They should sound that way from the factory. Well, I can't leave well enough alone and added Dynatech longtubes,high flow cats,Airade cai, and Trifecta tune. Now she is LOUD!!

Sounds incredible! I have a crappy vid up on youtube but atleast you can hear it. Search for "Trifecta 2010 camaro."

07-01-2010, 09:23 AM	#18
kbui Drives: 85 Vette, 07 Escalade ESV, 03 GMC, Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 927 View My Garage	If you are going with OEM GFX, you should look at MBRP's square/rectangular tips. They are very nice inside that bezel but a bit expensive. __________________ ADM Performance installed and tuned: Maggie, Stainless Works Power LTs, ADM race cai, ADM ZL1 scoop Whiteside Customs Super Street 2 Package w/ coilovers BC Racing Coilovers and lowered, Whiteline Bushings & Swaybars MBRP catback exhaust, ZL1 bumper conversion, Drake billet shifter, Hurst paddles, NLP rear spoiler, OEM GFX, Vis Racing hood, ASA GT5 wheels

07-01-2010, 03:25 PM	#21
jtzako Drives: 2010 IBM Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: DFW, Tx Posts: 1,157	The Autos dont really do the Decel Popping thing unless you are in Manual mode. You can hear it on start up but that is about it. As for freeing up RWHP, I doubt it, the restriction point on these cars is the Cats, not the manifold/muffler as much. Unless you replace the Cats I doubt removing the Mufflers would do anything for power (other than reduce it due to less backpressure perhaps) __________________ 2010 Camaro SS Imperial Blue \| CAI Inc, CAI \| Solo Hi Flow Cats \| X-Pipe \| Backup Camera \| PDIM

07-03-2010, 07:49 AM	#25
Wilburbeest Think With Your Dipstick! Drives: 1997 Camaro Z28 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 185	Ok, if I hear "you'll lose power because you don't have enough back pressure" one more time I may possibly harm myself. First lets think of the job of a performance exhaust system. Its job is to evacuate gasses from the cylinders AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. Now lets look at the definition of back pressure from Wikipedia since its the first one I found and is easy to understand. "Back pressure refers to the resistance to a moving fluid by obstructions or tight bends in the confinement vessel along which it is moving, such as piping or air vents, against its direction of flow." To just bring the point home a little more, in an extreme case this would force exhaust back into your cylinders. WHY WOULD YOU WANT THIS IN AN EXHAUST? EVER?! This myth partially came from some old carbureted engines where when you put on a free flowing exhaust (headers and the like) without properly rejetting the carb the car would run lean, thus creating a loss of power. In some cases newer cars need a tune to fully take advantage of a very free flowing setup as well. HOWEVER, if your piping was really just entirely too big for your setup (and I mean really way too big. My stock internal LT1 is fine with 3" duals but no way you'd want to go any bigger for that app. Probably a perfect fit for your LS3 though. If I did not have future plans I would have gone smaller diameter) it is still true that you would loose some low end power. This is not because of a lack of back pressure though. The term you'd be looking for here is POSITIVE DELTA PRESSURE (likewise, back pressure would cause negative delta pressure, or delta p.) "DELTA PRESSURE (aka delta P): Describes the pressure drop through a component and is the difference in pressure between two points" In laymans terms, positive delta p is more or less the vaccuum created by your exhaust system, also often called SCAVENGING. As exhaust piping gets bigger and bigger, the positive delta p will drop, however the overall flow will keep going up until you hit a certain point. Granted generally (in my bit of experience) you have to seriously overdo your pipe diameter by epic proportions to loose significant amounts of low end power, the ideal goal would (again, we're talking GENERALLY) be to use the smallest piping you can without impairing flow at the top of the engine's operating range. However I will reiterate, back pressure is nowhere in that equation other than that its something you don't want! If you stuffed a rag in your muffler would it give you more torque? HELL NO! If you want a really great writeup to read on this here is one I found a while back and actually referenced a little just now. http://my.prostreetonline.com/forums...ead.php?t=1639 /end rant My whole point in the novel I just wrote? you'll be just fine with no mufflers Also, sometimes what people are feeling when they have "less low end power" I think is probably more like they have more up top, not necessarily less down low. I have heard all types of "blah blah I pulled my muffler and cat blah blah have less low end blah blah blah" But have I ever seen this supported on a dyno? Not once. The butt dyno (seat of the pants) can be very deceiving. __________________ - Willy 1997 Camaro Z28 (LT1/T56): K&N CAI \| Kooks 1 3/4" LTs \| 3" Custom Duals \| UMI LCAs w/ relocation brackets \| UMI adj. panhard bar \| UMI adj. torque arm \| Koni SA shocks \| Strano Springs \| Ram Powergrip clutch \| Pro 5.0 shifter \| skip shift eliminator kit \| WS6 Store rotors \| Hawk HPS pads Last edited by Wilburbeest; 07-03-2010 at 08:18 AM.

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07-01-2010, 01:32 AM	#15
phenixdragon Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 781	Got my car back and it sounds WAY better then stock. I actually still think it's pretty quiet. I have had 5.0s that have been louder then this with mufflers, cats, etc...I had thought I was buying black chrome tips but I guess the guy was talking about the smoke steel, which looks pretty good too. It gives it like a mirror type look to it which i think matches better as it matches pretty closely to the wheels. It's still pretty quit cruising and when ideal but it sounds more throaty. You do here the popping being louder which my wife hates but I like it. I probably will have this shop do my headers instead of trying to do it myself. I am pretty impressed and they even made sure the tips are right in the middle of the hole. Now they may actually be a bit too far out, which great on how the car is but I do want to get the GM body kit which makes the tip area look square which I think looks awesome on this car. So I may have them put them back in but it will be awhile before I get this body added. Got some other things I want done first. I was thinking of using the stock tips but I figure this is just easier and I do like the smoke. I was even of thinking of keeping the mufflers in my garage but what am I going to do with them? I don't plan on putting them on again and I don't think anyone wants to buy them. So all in all I am very happy and wish I did this on day one. Probably would have done this over tinting...well maybe not since I hate people being able to see inside. Total was like $270. If I just went with the normal stainless steel it would have been like $200, it was about $70 more for the smoked steel.

07-01-2010, 02:01 AM	#16
hypnatic Drives: Victory Redhead Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 111	ur car may be a lil quicker if u do a muffler delete cuz you'll be shaving off some pounds from the vehicle... i think those mufflers weigh about 30lbs a piece!!!

07-01-2010, 02:02 AM	#17
phenixdragon Drives: 2010 Camaro SS Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 781	I was also reading somewhere else that removing them maybe also frees up 10 rwhp, but I can't confirm or deny that.

07-01-2010, 12:08 PM	#19
fourmz Fourmz Drives: 2010 2SS/RS 1968 Firebird 1994 Z28 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Soldotna,Alaska Posts: 382	I just had the delete done yesterday and it was way better than I thought it would be. It has a nice growl to it and only decel popped once on me.

07-02-2010, 11:50 AM	#23
SGOS252382 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: S.W. Florida Posts: 6,294	Future plans? Muffler delete all by itself (without headers and high flow cats) isn't that loud and a lot of guys seem to like it. But if your future plans include long tube headers, I'd think about a different setup. Lots of guys that went the muffler delete (stock) have since purchased exhausts to quiet down their cars with headers.

07-02-2010, 12:23 PM	#24
longbeachss2010 Drives: black SS Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: long beach ca Posts: 363	so if u got lt header high flow cats and muffer delete and resonator delete. it will be to load and have cops on u

07-03-2010, 10:09 PM	#26
Camaro2SSLS3 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS LS3 6 speed IOM/IOM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Oaks,PA Posts: 730	I just did this on my car today and it sounds so awesome. Used the factory tail pipes, cost me one stick of tubing and thats it (my brother has a exhaust bender) I highly reccomend doing this!!

07-04-2010, 12:48 PM	#27
NoMercy Drives: 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 192	I did the muffler delete and reused the stock tips. Sound was great! They should sound that way from the factory. Well, I can't leave well enough alone and added Dynatech longtubes,high flow cats,Airade cai, and Trifecta tune. Now she is LOUD!! Sounds incredible! I have a crappy vid up on youtube but atleast you can hear it. Search for "Trifecta 2010 camaro."