Camaro SS vs 6.4 HEMI

[LS1owner]

Originally Posted by 2SSARMY

Oh god not another one of these threads.

Lets compare stuff that's not even out yet and be proven completely wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised if the new 6.4L performed worse than the 6.1L. And I bet it's going to cost like $55k+

55K and I'll be at BMW buying an M3 Sedan, thanks!

45k I'd look at it.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by LS1owner

55K and I'll be at BMW buying an M3 Sedan, thanks!

45k I'd look at it.

Perlimary pricing is 43,100 but could change before intro

[Stew]

Originally Posted by mjf6866

hmm, if thats the case, then i would expect the handling to improve, but the straight line acceleration to suffer a bit. seems like the SRTs are having problems transferring that weight and power to the rear due to the stiffer setup with the Bilsteins, as the current regular R/T's are allowing the front to lift and "lean" to the back on hard acceleration to allow the rear to plant a little better. i'll have to do a little digging to find out for sure...

There was a thread on Challengertalk about it. Could it be maybe the shorter springs on the SRT be the culprit with the launching? Oh, have you seen the posts about the Mopar 10 Challenger yet? It takes the super track suspension and apparently adds front and rear strut tower braces. Expensive car, but gotta wonder how that effect handling.

[ayceman]

Originally Posted by Stew

There was a thread on Challengertalk about it. Could it be maybe the shorter springs on the SRT be the culprit with the launching? Oh, have you seen the posts about the Mopar 10 Challenger yet? It takes the super track suspension and apparently adds front and rear strut tower braces. Expensive car, but gotta wonder how that effect handling.

I wonder if in the next model year challenger the SRT engineers will solve the dreaded wheel hop issue with the manual challengers that I know many owners have complained about but in the SRT engineer chat sessions most of the answers were pointing at driver error.

[bmwdon]

thought I read someplace that the new 8 speed isn't 10-15lbs heavier than the current nag1, it's more like 100+lbs heavier, but rated to 800ft lbs as well. The reason the trucks and srt's get it. For some reason, I don't think the jump to 6.4 is going to miraculously make the SRTs just that far ahead of the SS's, more like keep it's big butt in line with them, maybe edge them out by a tiny bit. Then with mods, all bets are off of course.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by ayceman

I wonder if in the next model year challenger the SRT engineers will solve the dreaded wheel hop issue with the manual challengers that I know many owners have complained about but in the SRT engineer chat sessions most of the answers were pointing at driver error.

THis I hope too. The hopnot kit seems to be working for now. I am hoping the 6.4 leads to a lot of 08-10 SRT8 trade ins and awesome used deals, is that so wrong? hahahaha.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by bmwdon

thought I read someplace that the new 8 speed isn't 10-15lbs heavier than the current nag1, it's more like 100+lbs heavier, but rated to 800ft lbs as well. The reason the trucks and srt's get it. For some reason, I don't think the jump to 6.4 is going to miraculously make the SRTs just that far ahead of the SS's, more like keep it's big butt in line with them, maybe edge them out by a tiny bit. Then with mods, all bets are off of course.

I think judging on what the "370 HP" hemi can doo with the auto, the auto 6.4 SRT will be quite the beasty. Manuals? it all depends on if they fixed the wheelhop or not.

[xs29j8]

Originally Posted by LS1owner

55K and I'll be at BMW buying an M3 Sedan, thanks!

45k I'd look at it.

First post for new member... yes, I am a Mopar fan, but like all three of the new musclecar offerings. I will even admit that the Mustang GT & Camaro SS are better "performance for the dollar" values, with the Mustang being a downright bargain in it's latest version. But, performance was only one of the factors that I considered, with style, comfort, and functionality being considered also.

At one time I had even considered getting one of each of the offerings, but doubt that I will now. I knew that the Mustang would be a problem from the functionality aspect, with the rear seat being basically a padded package shelf, but thought that might do for a daily driver where passengers probably were not expected to be along for the ride.

I recently looked at a Camaro SS, and was surprised that the headroom was dismal, and visibility was equally unacceptable. The Challenger too has been pinged for it's visibility, but it much better IMO than the Camaro. Basically, those issues were deal breakers for me. In addition, the styling of the Challenger is much more to my liking, not surprising I suppose with my 30+ year history with collecting Mopars. But even my non-Mopar friends seem to like the styling of the Challenger more, with Performance value and brand loyalty making up their mind to pass on the Challenger.

Back on topic, the price of the SRT8 is going up almost $2000, based on the figures on the NADAGUIDE.COM website. As Stew said, MSRP of $43,100 and adding GG Tax & Destination it comes $45,601. I bought my SRT8 in December of 2008 for $1700 under MSRP, and they are being bought today for under invoice. A year from now I expect the new 6.4L SRT8s will be able to be bought for $43,000 or less ($43,378 Invoice)... Six Speed cars and the few available options will increase the price.

Here is part of a screen shot for the NADA site:




As for horsepower/torque output of the new production version of the 6.4L Hemi, "Resume Speed" an insider with a good track record on advanced information, seems to indicate the HP will be much closer to 500... I hope he is right! Here is one of his posts on the HP:




He later said the rating would end in "5", leading to speculation that it would be 505 HP... which he as not discouraged at this point in time. IMHO, the new 6.4 needs to produce close to 500 HP... at that rating I will buy another SRT, at 460 HP I will just keep what I have now. Here is how RS mentioned the HP value ending in "5":




This thread is interesting, and certainly entertaining... keep it up gents!

Allen aka "XS"

[assasinator]

480hp maybe....505hp 6.4 liters and meet emissions,etc. that is dream world. you guys are expecting too much. 480 out of 6.4 liters is pushing it.

if nothing changed besides added cubes you are talking 445hp. the extra 60hp has to come from somewhere. prostock cams? 275cc intake ports? exxagerations. this is a factory car. the legendary 7 liter chevy has WAY more in it than any hemi.


480 and just live with it. i doubt it will actually make 480 myself.

[8cd03gro]

He said one of the final digits would be a 5. That means it is 5xx, x5x or xx5. I would have to agree with assassinator that those numbers seem a little extreme.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by assasinator

480hp maybe....505hp 6.4 liters and meet emissions,etc. that is dream world. you guys are expecting too much. 480 out of 6.4 liters is pushing it.

if nothing changed besides added cubes you are talking 445hp. the extra 60hp has to come from somewhere. prostock cams? 275cc intake ports? exxagerations. this is a factory car. the legendary 7 liter chevy has WAY more in it than any hemi.


480 and just live with it. i doubt it will actually make 480 myself.

Why? a 4 liter BMW makes 412, a 5 liter 500, the Benz 6.3 V8 makes as much as 568. It's called technology. I would easily expect GM to be able to make 500 HP motor with it's next gen LS tech. Remember, this is not a stroked 6.1, it is a new motor based off the new for 09 VVT 5.7 Hemi which means things like variable valve timing, etc. I don't see why something that has been done for years now all of a sudden can't be done?

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Stew

Why? a 4 liter BMW makes 412, a 5 liter 500, the Benz 6.3 V8 makes as much as 568. It's called technology. I would easily expect GM to be able to make 500 HP motor with it's next gen LS tech. Remember, this is not a stroked 6.1, it is a new motor based off the new for 09 VVT 5.7 Hemi which means things like variable valve timing, etc. I don't see why something that has been done for years now all of a sudden can't be done?

And considering the current 5.7 and 6.1 HEMIs are still using ancient speed density technology, I don't expect Dodge to suddenly start selling state of the art engines.

Hell, Ford stopped using speed density in the Mustang engines in the 1980s! There is a reason the Ford 4.6 3V and the GM LS motors respond so well to mods, and their use of MAF is a big part of it.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

And considering the current 5.7 and 6.1 HEMIs are still using ancient speed density technology, I don't expect Dodge to suddenly start selling state of the art engines.

Hell, Ford stopped using speed density in the Mustang engines in the 1980s! There is a reason the Ford 4.6 3V and the GM LS motors respond so well to mods, and their use of MAF is a big part of it.

Ah, but Speed density is fine for a stock application. Did you know the late 80s L98 CHevies were mass air, but the 90-92 (I believe) switched to Speed density for a few more hp from the factory. And the 5.7 actually responds quite well to mods, IMHO all modern air systems are designed to adapt to airflow.

[Georgie]

i would love a 6.4 @ 500HP... i would really love a 6.1 in the R/T though