What do you guys think?

[NAHURRY]

if you can swing it then go for the 2010, no doubt.That kind of 69 is for sure a weekend toy.a real 2nd car type of deal in my opinion

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

I've found a few other for a bit less 15K for driveable beaters. 18K for a mint 6 cyl.... and a few other clones and customes around 20K.

Right now I am leaning towards the 2010. That makes more sense as a daily driver, which is what it will probably be. But, everytime I start looking at 69's I get all confused.


And don't get me wrong about the 11:1 CR. I've just had my heart set on a blown car, and I'd have to probably pull this motor and get a crate since this has the high CR.

I can tell you about living with high CR from when I had my '69 Z/28, very hard on batteries in the winter, push starting when you have a dead battery you need to get it up to about 20mph and dump the clutch in third gear, expect the rear wheels to slide for a few feet before the wheels/engine turn over. All the high CR cars I've owned seemed to be prone to vapor lock in the summer time, not sure why (perhaps because they all tended to run with fairly high engine temps). I'll say though that they can be a lot of fun, slowly cruising through the drive in BBQ with that high lift cam "loping" is a unique feeling.
Clyde

[oldbiker]

but now days they make better starters ...and a heat plate fixes the vapor locking ...i say get what you want the most ...as you can tell the 69 is pulling in some good money ...the new Camaro cost alot right now ...its a toss up.

[Supercamaro64]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Well, if you all want the truth.

I'm having the hardest time deciding whether to get a 69 or a 2010.....

It's killing me.

well let me settle your dispute. a 1969 camaro is very rare these days, at least one that is running. and yes, a '10 will have more power, but think about it. if you get a '69 thts in good shape and fix it up so its in mint condition, its going to be worth more than the new ones! ans plus, how many times do u see a car like a mustang everyday? well, tht will be the new camaros in a couple years, and they are going to be pretty common. now think how many times you see a vintage camaro or mustang, or any pony car from back then. if you are like me, it wont be that often

[Scott@Bjorn3D]

It is a pretty car, but man get a 1SS, not alot more and you have a radio!!

[playhard67]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Right now I am leaning towards the 2010. That makes more sense as a daily driver, which is what it will probably be. But, everytime I start looking at 69's I get all confused.

If you're looking for a DD, and can afford the 2010. Get the 2010. The seller states that the 69 is not a DD. Good second car though if you can hang onto your Mazda too.

[blazzin1]

I really like the 1st Gen's as well (who doesn't). But, personally, I don't think this '69 is worth $25k (maybe more like $20k at the very most). I guess if you wanted something that has already been modded and hot-rodded then maybe it's worth it to you. Myself, if I'm going to pay that kind of money for a 1st Gen, it needs to have some of the orignal drivetrain somewhere!!! This thing has lost it's original motor, tranny, and rear end. As a "collector" car, it's lost all its value already. The door panels need replaced, carpet looks faded, no deluxe interior, review mirror broken, rust spots...etc. Who knows if this thing is even a "real" SS, it could be a built-up clone. Wait for the 2010, you'll be much happier. Sorry if anyone disagrees, just my opinion.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by playhard67

If you're looking for a DD, and can afford the 2010. Get the 2010. The seller states that the 69 is not a DD. Good second car though if you can hang onto your Mazda too.

You have just perfectly described my dilemma. At around 20K, I could keep the Mazda and have the weekend 1st gen as a semi project car.

Or I'll probably have to trade in the Mazda to get the 5th Gen....

The good news is I'm waiting for early 2010 before I will buy the 5th gen.

Originally Posted by blazzin1

I really like the 1st Gen's as well (who doesn't). But, personally, I don't think this '69 is worth $25k (maybe more like $20k at the very most). I guess if you wanted something that has already been modded and hot-rodded then maybe it's worth it to you. Myself, if I'm going to pay that kind of money for a 1st Gen, it needs to have some of the orignal drivetrain somewhere!!! This thing has lost it's original motor, tranny, and rear end. As a "collector" car, it's lost all its value already. The door panels need replaced, carpet looks faded, no deluxe interior, review mirror broken, rust spots...etc. Who knows if this thing is even a "real" SS, it could be a built-up clone. Wait for the 2010, you'll be much happier. Sorry if anyone disagrees, just my opinion.

I agree, This was just one of the many I came across in this price range. I just picked it as an example. There are more than a few SS's out there in that price range. I expect over time I will turn the 69 in to more of a touring car but, not an extreme custom. LS9 Maybe....

[Camaro_Corvette]

LOL, Yeah Gtahvit, an LS9 will make a good "touring" car motor.

I would tend to agree with blazzin though, his post made a good reality check. Yes with a little TLC the car will be perfect, but i don't think you would be able to sell this for a profit a few years down the road for much of a profit at all. His price feels a little high for a totally custom chopped up SS. Granted I haven't looked up prices for a 69' since the camaro was unveiled in 2006.

rust spots have to be fixed depending where they are can really drive the price of that repair up. Especially if it is up above the rear window.

Interior is livable, but when somebody gets in the car with you, and you have this beautiful exterior, they are gonna be a little suprised. Trust me i have seen this look before. After I saw the look, i ended up replacing the entire interior in my 86'.

Other than that, I'm gonna assume the car is damn fast, and it looks absolutely beautiful. Which both outweigh the two cons that i have up their. Don't know what to pick man, tough decision.

[Stingr69]

Too much money for that "rolling garage sale" car. :(

Look where the "350" emblems are on the front fenders.
That car was never an SS, it was a stripped down base model car with clone badges added, installed in the wrong places, built by someone that had no clue. Jerico tranny?!?! -HA!

-Mark.

[oldbiker]

just look up the vin# and fender tag ...do some research ...and talk the seller down to your price range ...then get the 5th gen ...best of both worlds...

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Stingr69

Too much money for that "rolling garage sale" car. :(

Look where the "350" emblems are on the front fenders.
That car was never an SS, it was a stripped down base model car with clone badges added, installed in the wrong places, built by someone that had no clue. Jerico tranny?!?! -HA!

-Mark.

Stingr,

Do you have a good resource for what to look for on 1st Gen Camaros.

We've only had one and it was a restoration car that my Dad bought after it was complete. I'm looking for a car that I can make into a mild or moderate custom. But, I'd like to know what to look for as far as badges, matching numbers etc.

Thanks. I have a couple books on camaros but they are narrative not buyers guides..

[Mr Twisty]

I had a 69 and it was a lot of fun, but remember, these are 40 year old cars. 1st gen cars are like having a hot wife, they're alot of fun to play with, but they're sure expensive to maintain

If I was going to buy another 1st gen I'd first look for an original unmolested car. Make sure all the parts are there, and in good condition, a lot of little missing/bad pieces really adds up quick! http://www.goodmarkindustries.com/ww.../04_Camaro.pdf (4.5meg goodmark online catalog)
If I couldn't find one in my price range, I'd try to find a rotissery restored car with ALOT of photo documentation.

The body is the valuable part, any time rust is mentioned, pay a body man 20 bucks to give it a quick look-over for rust. More often than not, a car advertised with a little rust has ALOT of rust hidden, or intentionally covered up, but sometimes you can get lucky. Use a magnet inside a handkerchief (to protect the paint) and hold it against the fenders, doors, and 1/4 panels, if there's bondo the magnet won't stick well, or at all. A little bondo isn't necessarily bad, but it does show previous repairs. Look under the carpet at the floor pans if possible, look close at the trunk floor, inside the 1/4 panels and fenders, the subframe mounting points front and rear, around the back glass look for bubbling paint, especially the lower corners. Check the rockers for rust or bubbled paint. Paint bubbles can be a good sign there's rust underneath.

Read up in some of the forums regarding 1st gen cars and problems they may have, it'll help the learning process, and what to look for when buying.

Wiring: Look for a rats nest of wiring under the dash, hopefully it'll be unmolested, but not likely. Look for splices etc. in the engine bay. Check all the electrical items to make sure they're working. "Oh yeah, I forgot, the wiper motor quit." Sure it did, was that when the car was full of smoke from a wiring short? (Hopefully not!)

If everyone on this website, defines "restored", you won't get 2 matching answers, but lots of vague BS To some it's a fresh $500 paint job, to others it's a full rotissery resto with a million documentation photos.

To answer your original question.... I'd punt and take the 3 points.

[blazzin1]

gtahvit,
Here a few books that are really good for some 1st Gen research:

1. Camaro Exposed 1967-1969 by Paul Zazarine
2. Camaro: 1967-1969 Fact Book by M.F. Dobbins (Rare/Expensive but great book)
3. The 1969 Camaro Reference Book by John R. Hooper
4. The 1967-1968 Camaro Reference Book by John R. Hooper
5. The Definitive 1969 Camaro Z/28 - SS396 Fact Book by Jerry MacNeish
6. The Definitive 1967-1968 Camaro Z/28 Fact Book by Jerry MacNeish

These books will show you some of the original equipment to look for and placement of emblems/badges, as well as original part numbers too. The books by John R. Hooper are probably the best all-around 1st Gen Camaro book that are readily available with a little searching. You can probably google these titles and find them or maybe Ebay too. My advice, if you are looking for something for mild to moderate customization, find something that is Non-matching #'s already with a good straight body (MisterCamaro69's has good body advice above) and have fun with it as a daily driver. Just please don't "hack up" or modify a #'s matching car into something that can never be put back to stock. There are very few #'s matching cars left out there, and they are getting very expensive these days. It just kills me to see someone part out original drivetrain components to modify and "hot rod" a once valuable car. Hope this helps a little! Take Care...