Beware: If you are trading in your old car?

[card21doc]

No, lowballing would be giving you $18000 for your $20,000 car. BTW your trade in is only worth what some one will pay for it. In this market, with all of the variables, who really knows? The books are only guides, and the books don't write checks. (It would be so much easier if they did. lol)

Try to sell your car before your new car comes in. If you can, great! If it doesn't sell, maybe you are asking too much for your car, or maybe there is no market for your car right now.

[garagelogic]

Originally Posted by Barry626

Again, highest offer they came to is $22000 on my $34000 car.

It should be pretty obvious to you by now that you do not have a $34,000 car. What you paid for the car was not necessarily what it was worth. In fact, it sounds like you overpaid for the car when you bought it. Of course, you're not alone in this, as a vast majority of people do the same thing when they buy a new car.

Your best bet for getting anywhere close to what you are looking for out of the car is selling it yourself. You will never get any dealer, of any brand, to allow a trade value anywhere near what you seem to want.

[Maddog78]

Others have done a good job explaining why you got offered what you did.
The fact you went to 4 different dealers and couldn't get what you wanted should have made it clear you were expecting too much.
In this economy cash is king.
Selling it privately will tell you what it is really worth.
You have to expect to take a bath when you trade in a car that is that new.
That's just the way it works. Dealers are barely survivng nowadays and they will offer you a price that they are sure they can make a profit on.
I suggest you keep it another yr. and see how things shake out.

[USAFJeeper]

Just a note, not sure if this has been posted elsewhere. I went to price my Jeep on KBB and Camaro is now on there for new car pricing

http://www.kbb.com/KBB/NewCars/Optio...pe_246562.aspx

[PsyDoc]

Originally Posted by card21doc

No, lowballing would be giving you $18000 for your $20,000 car.

No, lowballing is a subcategory of the social influence technique "Commitment and Consistency" used by many salespeople. A person commits to a course of action and then the costs of following through with that action are raised. For example, next summer you walk onto a Chevy dealership and agree to purchase a 2SS Camaro for $35k. The car is everything you wanted in a Camaro (i.e., colors, wheels, windows already tinted, etc.) and then something happens that removes the reason you decided to buy. Perhaps there was a "calcuation error" or the manager would not go for that low a price and the best offer is $500-750 higher than what you were quoted. The other "trick" is that the salesperson offers you an inflated amount on your trade-in to get you to commit to purchasing. Then, just before the deal is done, they tell you the used car manager made a mistake and the best they can do on your trade-in is $500 - $1,000 less. Because you have spent considerable time and effort at the dealership (they can be like the black hole of time), a lot of people just go ahead with the deal anyway.

[Barry626]

What most people are missing from my original thread is...

I never expected to get anywhere near my original $34,000 bought enough new cars to know this.
I realize u lose a good $6,000 - $10,000 just driving off the lot first day.
Thing is my very first offer was only $15,000 on a car that I have $34,000 into.
They expected to make over $3,000 MSRP on Camaro & $10,000 or close to it on my trade?

I know all about how cars appreciate, etc but surely not 56% in 3 months.
Anyone that thinks this is right or fair is brain dead or better yet Dealers & Salesman that are posting!

[Super83Z]

Originally Posted by TomServo

Go visit the Corvette Forum and read all the horror posts re this issue. Corvette's that sold new for $55K a year ago can't fetch $40K now. BTW there are still 160 BRAND NEW 07 and over 2100 08's Corvette's sitting on dealer lot's right now. Camaro's and Corvette's aren't vehicles folks NEED in a recession.

BTW, here's CF member that gather's data from GMBUYPOWER to track the number of new Corvette's still sitting on dealer lots. To see 160 Brand New 07's out there is an eye opener and should ground each of us, if GM can't sell Corvette's I fear the Camaro may face a similar fate.
http://www.jeffhardy.com/lookupvette.php

Or check out this CF dealer - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-d...corvettes.html
$2000 below GMS and 75 to choose from

Good luck but be prepared to take a beating if you have a trade.

So you think how a $50K dollar sports/super car is good indicator of how well a $23K V-6 car will sell?

[card21doc]

Originally Posted by PsyDoc

No, lowballing is a subcategory of the social influence technique "Commitment and Consistency" used by many salespeople. A person commits to a course of action and then the costs of following through with that action are raised. For example, next summer you walk onto a Chevy dealership and agree to purchase a 2SS Camaro for $35k. The car is everything you wanted in a Camaro (i.e., colors, wheels, windows already tinted, etc.) and then something happens that removes the reason you decided to buy. Perhaps there was a "calcuation error" or the manager would not go for that low a price and the best offer is $500-750 higher than what you were quoted. The other "trick" is that the salesperson offers you an inflated amount on your trade-in to get you to commit to purchasing. Then, just before the deal is done, they tell you the used car manager made a mistake and the best they can do on your trade-in is $500 - $1,000 less. Because you have spent considerable time and effort at the dealership (they can be like the black hole of time), a lot of people just go ahead with the deal anyway.

No, that is "highballing" the trade. You are given a figure the salesman knows he can't deliver. You are given $20,000 for the trade in, when in actuallity, the salesman knows he can only give you $17000. Through various methods, this is when the negotiating gets serious.

At our dealership, we are too busy to play games like this. If you know the car you want, we will have a figure for you in 10 minutes (or less.) We will show you the factory invoice on the new car, we will negotiate a fair profit on the invoice, and we will show you what your car is worth to us.

We have at least 3 people appraise your car independently and then average those figures. (If it is a rare car, ie RR or similar, we will make appropritate phone calls, get on the net, etc to try to determine its' worth.) Are we right on a car's value 100% of the time? Probably not, but we probably don't miss too many.

If the deal is acceptable, the car is sold. We don't have time for games and we know your time is valuable also. We just try to treat everyone the way we would like to be treated; with respect and courtesy. If you don't buy the car, there are no hard feelings. Maybe we will earn your business next time.

With this approach, we don't miss too many sales. And the few that we do miss are still our friends, and quite often buy their next car from us.

BTW, we pass on all rebates to the consumer INCLUDING dealer cash.

[card21doc]

Also, we never ask for a deposit. If you are picking up your car next weekend, that's fine. If we have to order your car, no problem, we'll call you when it's in. If we buy your car on smart auction you can even watch us "pull the trigger." We are as transparent as can be and never ever take a deposit. Our word is good and so is your handshake. I know it sounds corny, but that is just the way we do things. So, you have every opportunity to back out, and we have no leverage to keep you in the deal.

[GM4LIFE]

yeah i have decided to prob sell mine privately if i can. The dealerships around here are only allowing me $8500-$12000 for my fully loaded 2008 Pontiac G5 GT that was $22000when I bought it new 10/07. it has 23,000 miles on it now....

[Barry626]

Originally Posted by card21doc

Also, we never ask for a deposit. If you are picking up your car next weekend, that's fine. If we have to order your car, no problem, we'll call you when it's in. If we buy your car on smart auction you can even watch us "pull the trigger." We are as transparent as can be and never ever take a deposit. Our word is good and so is your handshake. I know it sounds corny, but that is just the way we do things. So, you have every opportunity to back out, and we have no leverage to keep you in the deal.

Sure wish alll dealers took some lessons from u guys, surely not the case in NY!

[ZYAL8R]

This post is for card21doc.

Originally Posted by card21doc

There are multiple problems that are happening at the same time..."The perfect storm."

Banks are tightening credit requirements and loaning LESS on cars.If you are upside down and trying to trade, it harder now to get a loan. Banks are turning down deals on 700+ credit scores that they would have jumped at 9 months ago.

The dealer needs to be in a position to move the used car and get the money NOW. That means to value a used car at what he can convert to cash next week at the auction (ie wholesale.)

On a car like the Camaro, if the dealer is going to get MSRP out of it, that means he can only give you on trade it's wholesale worth now. Not next month, not next spring....NOW.

If the dealer tries to retail your car, he must be in a position to sell at what the bank will finance. Bankers are aware of the current market and have adjusted their lending accordingly. Again, if someone tries to buy your car with a trade, they are probably upside down. How do they get financed? Generally speaking, people buying used cars do not have as high credit scores as new car buyers. ( Don't get po'd, I said GENERALLY.)
It is a vicious circle.

( As a side note, it hasn't been that long ago when banks not only wouldn't finance the upside down part; they actually REQUIRED A *****GASP****DOWN PAYMENT.)

Let's take a typical scenario. I'm just making up the figures.

You go to your local dealer to purchase a $30,000 car. That car costs the dealer $27500, which he has financed.

You have a trade in that is currently worth $20,000. The dealer agrees to trade with you for $8000 difference. That means he is getting $28000 for his car, right?
WRONG!
The dealer is getting $8,000 in cash and a car that he has to sell. There is no guarantee that he will get $20,000 for your trade in, or when he will sell it. He might sell it tomorrow, or next week, or next month, or even next year.
Keep in mind that THEORETICALLY he has made $500. He has to pay interest on his car, he has to pay a commission to the salesman, he has to cover his overhead in order to stay in business,
The worse part is the dealer has $8000 in cash, but he has to pay off the $27500 to GMAC or whoever has the floor plan. That has to be paid IMMEDIATLY. Not when he sells the trade, but right now.

So follow this along:
The dealer has $8000 in cash to pay off a $27500 car. He will not have the additional $19500 until he sells the trade in. The dealer is in the hole $19,500 until he sells the trade in (which again may be next week, next month, next year.) In the meantime he has payroll to meet, he has overhead, and maybe, just maybe he'd like to make a little return on his investment.

This scenerio is playing out all over the country, and dealers are being put out of business because they can't make up the $19500 deficit.

Now, if you don't have a trade, it's quite simple. You buy the $30,000 car for $28000. The dealer in turn pays off his loan on the car of $27500, and has $500 left over to pay his overhead and maybe make a profit.

In normal times when the cash is turning over, the dealer would rather have a trade in. He will roll the dice that he will make money on the trade in, and cash is flowing, so he can afford to pay off the $27500 even though he only recieved $8000 in cash.

I hope I have conveyed the dealers' side of the trade in story. It's not that the dealer is trying to screw anybody. Most dealers that are still in business treat people right. They are just trying to make an HONEST living like anyone else. I live and work in a small town. The people we sell are friends and neighbors. I like to be able to look them in the eye when I run into them at the grocery store. I'm interested about how little Bobby did in his little league game. When they need service, I want to know. If they need a ride or a car to drive I'm going to give it to them. If they can't bring their car in for service, I'm going to go get it, service it, and return it to them at no extra charge. We never sell at over MSRP, and usually we will discount a car. I will show them the invoice of the car they are buying. I will show them how much "profit" I am making. I will show them what their car is worth.

Maybe that is why we have so much repeat business. Even if people move, they still come back to our place to buy. We are in a small town in Indiana, but we sell more cars than a lot of "bigger" stores.

I'll get off my soap box now.

I read with interest your response above and all the numbers associated with it the cost of doing business. As a person who has the luck (or curse) of purchasing a new vehicle a year (for personal and business) I feel like I know "how to deal" with or w/o a trade, but i have two ?'s for card21doc. I was told two weeks ago by my salesman that I may get a better deal if I finance through them. They agreed to meet the APR that I already had prior to entering the dealership, so we said yes. Then the finance manager tells us to wait at least until we made the first 4 payments to do any kind of refinance, which we are certainly going to do. Q#1 Why would he say to wait?

And secondly, the one thing that I didn't see you address was the infamous "Dealer Holdback". Everyone knows that the holdback amounts to $1000 to 1500 for the dealer at the end of the year, but how does this figure into your explanation of what it costs for the dealer for his overhead and commisions to be able to sustain his business? The numbers and percentages you quoted seem believable, but then I can't get past the fact that this holdback amounts to a large sum beyond what may/may not be made off the trade and the msrp.

Not trying to be disruptive, just curious.

Thanks ahead for any info.

[Mrbowtie26]

Originally Posted by bobscogin

Just spend a little time on ebay if you want another indicator of how bad it is. I just ran a search of "Completed Items" for 2005-2008 Corvettes and of 791 cars that turned up in the rearch results, 39 met reserve. That's 5%. Now if reserves are being set at "book" value" -- and I'd think that's a reasonable assumption -- there's a lot of folks gonna take an a butt whippin' trying to sell a Vette. It's no stretch to understand how this will hurt Camaro sales (except among the diehard faithful) because buyers looking for performance now get to choose between a year old Corvette or a new SS. The times they are a changin'.

Bob

I was looking into getting a new Camaro but with the options I wanted for a
2SS I was around 37k. To be honest I can get a 1LT 09 corvette for 3k more or a 2006 Corvette for around 27k with a decent amount of options. So it looks like I'll be getting a Vette :/

[zebra]

Originally Posted by Mrbowtie26

I was looking into getting a new Camaro but with the options I wanted for a
2SS I was around 37k. To be honest I can get a 1LT 09 corvette for 3k more or a 2006 Corvette for around 27k with a decent amount of options. So it looks like I'll be getting a Vette :/

if you use back seats even on a semi-regular basis, you'll kick yourself. that's what happened when i went with a regular cab truck