GM not honoring my Camaro paint warranty; paint cracking and peeling all over the car

[2SSRS@Gen5diy]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

And furthermore, the only reason GM would pay for the repair is because it was wrong from the factory.

If the dealer screwed it up, GM would tell them to fix it on their own dime.

I don't see how GM is responsible. The accountability falls on who ever repainted the car.

Dealers have to get approval from GM to fix something that failed under nomral wear and tear. Not for something they break themselves...

Please lets not turn this thread into a bash GM thread. Lets focus on how car owner can sort out the best course of action.

Descent is the highest form of flattery, So is bashing as you call it.

GM is the manufacturer and dos sign franchise agreements, But at the end of the day its there name on the car NOT the dealers.

There is something a president once said " The buck stops Here" GM the buck stops Here, This car was New, The costumer payed for a new car He deserves a new car not a repainted car.

We all know that GM gives a way 1000 of new cars a year to dealers that sale more then there sales forecast,

Time to step up and get this guy a new car and then fix the old one on there dime or the dealers dime, But you cant hold the costumer as a hostage in the mean time.

GM bad press is bad press Some one needs to fix this now.

One last thing if it was me i will call the fire department find out where i can light the car on fire and then call all the press i can and tell them what i want to do, What do you think of that press GM will get then.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

One last thing if it was me i will call the fire department find out where i can light the car on fire and then call all the press i can and tell them what i want to do, What do you think of that press GM will get then.

That might work. My dad had a ford back in the late sixties that would not run every time it rained. He kept taking it back with no results. Finally he took it out to the dealer and parked right across the showroom doors so know one could get into the showroom and hung a sign on it that read lemon. When they showed up to open up that monday morning ,they were're pretty upset. Although it worked. They took the POS back and gave him a different car.

[GTAHVIT]

Last warning.

Stay on topic. If you aren't going to try to understand how the warranty process works, then maybe this isn't the thread for you.

I'm not deleteing posts, but infractions are next.

FWIW.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Last warning.

Stay on topic. If you aren't going to try to understand how the warranty process works, then maybe this isn't the thread for you.

I'm not deleteing posts, but infractions are next.

FWIW.

Sorry I'll delete my post. His just made my think of this story when I was a youngster and I just want to share. I didn't think it would cause a problem.

I already said in earlier post that I didn't feel it was GM's fault and theyshouldn't have to really do anything.

[jackr67]

One question that I don't feel has been adequately answered here: what thickness *should* a factory Camaro paint job be? I've seen a number of threads here on Camaro5 in which "mils" measurements are quoted for cars, but have not seen a concerted effort to compile/collect that data.

There are a number of possibilities we have not considered here:
1) All Camaros have paint as thick and as varied as mine. Perhaps this is a feature of the new paint process being used on the Camaro.
2) Some significant portion of all Camaros made have paint as thick and varied as mine - but most are closer to the expected 3.0 - 6.0 mils number. Perhaps there is/was a sustained production line problem that was remedied through additional paint work.
3) My Camaro is a rare exception to the norm, in which paint work was done "after" the build - by the factory, by the transporter or by the dealer.

By compiling additional data on Camaro paint thickness, we can add depth to this discussion - and perhaps uncover/eliminate the possibility of a larger problem being in play. Furthermore, it will enhance the data I am able to present at arbitration and allow for an airtight case showing that my car was repainted. It still does not establish *where* that work might have been done, but it's one less variable.

I'm planning to order one of these:
http://www.handsontools.com/Pro-Moto...ge_p_6096.html

This is the same meter used by the PPG rep, I believe. It is also recommended by GM (as well as other major manufacturers) for their body shops to use. I've obtained permission from a number of local Chevrolet dealerships to take paint thickness measurements.

Thoughts?

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Sorry I'll delete my post. His just made my think of this story when I was a youngster and I just want to share. I didn't think it would cause a problem.

I already said in earlier post that I didn't feel it was GM's fault and theyshouldn't have to really do anything.

No need, that wasn't directed at a specific person... That's why I didn't quote any posts.

No worries. I didn't delete posts because it looks like we are trying to silence one side of the argument.

So no biggie. I'd rather give the OP some ideas on how to get his problem fixed without the bash GM fest.

[The Stig]

I'm planning to order one of these:
http://www.handsontools.com/Pro-Moto...ge_p_6096.html

This is the same meter used by the PPG rep, I believe. It is also recommended by GM (as well as other major manufacturers) for their body shops to use. I've obtained permission from a number of local Chevrolet dealerships to take paint thickness measurements.

Thoughts?

That's a great idea. When I was having brake problems I posted a poll in the General section and got great results. The extra data really helps prove the point to Chevrolet. I think I suggested it earlier, or someone else might have, but have you considered filing with your areas Better Business Bureau? They did wonders for me.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by 2SSRS

Descent is the highest form of flattery,

Here's the equation:

D = sqrt( (8 m g) / (p r Cd v2) )


Where

• D is the chute diameter in meters
• m is the rocket mass in kilograms
• g is the acceleration of gravity = 9.8 m/s2
• p is 3.14159265359
• r is the density of air = 1.22 kg/m3
• Cd is the drag coefficient of the chute, which is 0.75 for a parasheet (flat sheet used for a parachute, like Estes rockets), or 1.5 for a parachute (true dome-shaped chute).
• v is the speed we want at impact with the ground (3 m/s or less)

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by jackr67

Pete, since you bring it up, Marty offered me $3,500 as a cash settlement. This amount includes $500 to repair the curb damage caused to the car at the dealership while he was inspecting it. The remaining $3,000 was for paint work.

...

Is there any reason you can think of why, with this clear of a map and detailed pictures of each defect, Marty couldn't have found the defects on the car on 5/17?

...

Pete - I understand what you're trying to do here, and honestly I can't fault you for trying .. it sounds like this is your job, and it can't be easy. I think you'll find that I'm a very reasonable person and that I'm trying very hard to do the right thing. All I expect in return is a little of the same consideration.

Really, put yourself in my shoes. You run a business on which dozens of employees and hundreds of customers depend to put food on the table. It's a stressful gig. To help relieve some of that stress, you decide to buy your first American car. It'll be a great stress reliever, and a lot of fun. Instead, you find out almost immediately that there are problems with the paint - worse, the manufacturer won't fix them. After eight months, you have a car your attorney won't let you drive, and you can't stand to look at. Your options right now:

1) Trade the car in. Sure, you take a bath on the trade and eat a loss of a few thousand dollars .. but at least it's gone. You learn your lesson.
2) Take GM to arbitration using the Lemon Law with an attorney - a process that can take months, if not years. This costs you a few thousand dollars in legal fees at a minimum, and in the end the most likely "positive" outcome is that GM gets told they have to paint the car. You end up with a not-so-good paint job and probably still end up getting rid of the car - but now it's branded and worth next to nothing.
3) Call the media, make noise and hold your breath until GM decides to provide good customer service. Really? Who wants to be a martyr.

I really appreciate the additional information. Let me add some clarification on me, my role and why I get involved. I don't work for GM. I don't work for a car dealer. I have no affiliation with GM or any dealer. I just happen to have some friends who do care about people's satisfaction and about the product that GM is producing. They try to help out where they can and so do I. Unfortunately, that sometimes puts me (and probably them) in a weird middle of the road position. I started the escalation thread and got involved in this thread because, like I mentioned earlier, I think sometimes dealers complicate things and the problem never gets to the right GM person who can help solve it. Or people start bashing without knowing the complete story. That may or may not be the case in this particular instance. Just giving you some background.

Having said that, I have been in your shoes and that's why I continue to work in the background to see if anything can be done. It's why I also keep asking questions in this thread. I can't say any more than that, but I will say that people are still looking at your concerns and they do care about your satisfaction and situation. I wish I could say more, but I can't.

I really do genuinely feel bad that you have been put in this situation and I hope that something can be done to correct it to your satisfaction. BTW, in my particular instance, I ended up trading the vehicle and taking the loss. But then again, there was no one trying to help me out so I was out on an island a bit. I hope that maybe I can help make the end result different in your case.

[Awesome_SS]

JACKR67. Have you checked inside the doors, under the hood, and trunk for overspray and tape marks? Check around non painted components for proof of re-paint or clear coat. I don't think anyone has suggested this to you yet.
Best of luck!

[RoyalKev]

That car is not repainted, i have a paint checking think from ppg and we tried on my black camaro and it showed similar numbers as the ones pictured.

[TooCool5]

Originally Posted by RoyalKev

That car is not repainted, i have a paint checking think from ppg and we tried on my black camaro and it showed similar numbers as the ones pictured.

Now this is getting interesting.

[RoyalKev]

Originally Posted by TooCool5

Now this is getting interesting.

Yeah a new car with original factory paint is supposed to read 3.5 or similar numbers my camaro was showing stupid numbers like 8.5, im not mad at gm but the paint on these cars suck period theres no question about it theres spots on my car where it looks like it barley got clear on them its so ruff.

[jackr67]

RoyalKev - let's add some meat to this discussion.

On Thursday, my ETG-A digital paint thickness meter arrived and I took it out to measure other new GM vehicles, new Camaros and Camaros of a similar vintage to mine. Here are the preliminary results that I obtained:

1) A typical GM vehicle has paint that is on average 5.42 mils in thickness. The average Camaro measured was 7.30 mils - a difference of almost 35%.
2) The thickest paint observed on other GM vehicles was 6.70 mils, while the average maximum thickness observed on Camaros tested was 8.43 mils.
3) With only one single reading exception, the thickest paint observed on other GM gehicles was thinner than the thinnest paint measured on a Camaro.
4) The standard deviation (variation in thickness) of paint observed on other GM vehicles is 0.34, while on Camaro's it is 0.52 - a difference of more than 50%.
5) The paint on my Camaro was 20% more inconsistent in thickness than the average Camaro, but not the most inconsistent Camaro I measured.
6) On average, my paint is 5% thicker than the average Camaro, and the thickest spots on my car are 13% more thick than the average Camaro.
7) Only one Camaro - one, in fact, made right around the time mine was - achieved consistency numbers comparable to other GM models .. though its paint was still thicker by almost 1.5 mils on average.



So, in quick summary, the Camaros I tested have paint which is 35% more thick and 51% more inconsistent in thickness than any other GM vehicle I tested.

Also of note, I was able to find a car very close in production sequence to mine - the purple car. Its paint was very consistent in thickness. Not sure whether it would be more accurate to compare my car to that car, or to the sum total of the measurements I took.

Either way, I agree - given how inconsistent paint jobs on Camaros are compared to other GM vehicles, I do not think my car was repainted .. it is simply a stand-out among already inconsistent paint.

Other questions:
1) I've been over the car very carefully, and there are no signs of tape lines. Except for the overspray on the rear fender, there are no other signs of paint work. That overspray may well have happened at the factory on the line.
2) Why do I not take their $3500 and go get the car painted? I bought a new car with a 100,000 mile warranty because I wanted a car I could simply enjoy - and not have to worry about. I enjoy working on cars, and fussing over cars .. but I reserve that for my classics. The Camaro should be trouble and worry free. By getting the car painted, whether by the dealer or by a third party, using "good will" money from GM rather than as a warranty action, at a minimum my paint warranty would be voided. I did not buy a new car only to have a big part of the warranty go away. There is clearly a problem with paint on Camaros that GM is trying to bully its way through.
3) The GM settlement offer allows for 22.8 hours of labor to paint my car. I took the car to two other Chevrolet dealerships and received estimates of 75 to 100 hours to perform that same work. The independent estimates I've received include as many as 124 hours. No way is the settlement offer adequate even for completing repairs, much less offsetting the drop in value of having a repainted car.

Thoughts?