The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Supermans

If we all could just live with that, there would be no point in improving over ones competition..lol.. Where is the Edmunds 2011 SS vs 5.0 review? As far as I know there isn't any so by going with all of the other reviewers that have, the Mustang 5.0 wins in every category that is non-subjective.

:mad0 259:

[Americanmuscle11]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

Would it hurt to look at some data for once and or be a little bit more fair in your assumptions?

You do realize they have track tested the cars and have shown a .1 second difference? You also have a very experienced autoxer telling you the cars are a dead heat stock or modified. Where are you getting this domination from?

Now we all know the camaro is about 250 lbs heavier and slightly slower in a strait line.

How can you say the IRS is being outperformed when it is a dead heat with the mustang on a slower and 250lb heavier vehicle?

Take away 250lbs from the camaro and leave the mustang alone....IRS wins with both cars being equal weight....simple as that. Unless you dont think removing 250lbs could have made up for .1 in that test LOL.

Open your eyes.

Where am I getting this domination from? Simple, the Mustang with a SRA outhandles a car with a much more sophisitcated IRS and it shouldn't. In theory an IRS is a better system in the handling department. How it's applied is a different story. The M3 got it right, the Camaro didn't. Sometimes that better ride quality isn't worth something more important in a performance car...handling. Whether it's by a mile or a tenth of a second the camaro isn't winning.

Take away 250lbs? Just like that? Are you some kind of magician?
IRS would win you're right as proven by the M3. However they could of, would of or should of is pointless. GM didn't and that's all that matters. GM won't just drop 250lbs from the 5th. Gen. without redesigning a heavy portion of the car itself.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

Where am I getting this domination from? Simple, the Mustang with a SRA outhandles a car with a much more sophisitcated IRS and it shouldn't. In theory an IRS is a better system in the handling department. How it's applied is a different story. The M3 got it right, the Camaro didn't. Sometimes that better ride quality isn't worth something more important in a performance car...handling. Whether it's by a mile or a tenth of a second the camaro isn't winning.

Take away 250lbs? Just like that? Are you some kind of magician?
IRS would win you're right as proven by the M3. However they could of, would of or should of is pointless. GM didn't and that's all that matters. GM won't just drop 250lbs from the 5th. Gen. without redesigning a heavy portion of the car itself.

Agreed..

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

:mad0 259:

Mustang owners have one thread to go to.. Nobody is forcing you to read this thread and reply We have a good rivalry now, a few years ago without a Camaro in existence there was none, so at least we can all be proud to have a rivalry up and running which will benefit all brands competing with each other.. Simple as that. But I'm glad you're still hanging around, the back and forth is fun for what it is. And it'll get more fun as more reviews and comparisons pop up which they will..

[Americanmuscle11]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I said a while back that I would expect to see a "gentlemen's agreement" like in Japan. They're just getting to the point where higher power outputs are pointless. The 5.4 is plenty capable of even more than 750hp and GM could easily make a variant of the LSA with different internals that could do the same. They will need to put a cap on the power and use suspension components and weight to make the difference.

I highly doubt in the automotive industry something like the "gentlemen's agreement" will ever happen. But I do agree that cars will reach a point where Horsepower will start to slow down with more focus on a lighter car overall with more nimble handling. This along with the Mustang and Camaro getting smaller as evidenced already by the rumors of the 6th. Gen. Camaro and next Mustang.
All do to warranty concerns, reliability issues and the insurance industry. Not to mention the never ending race for better gas mileage and green cars.

You can never have enough power!

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

I highly doubt in the automotive industry something like the "gentlemen's agreement" will ever happen. But I do agree that cars will reach a point where Horsepower will start to slow down with more focus on a lighter car overall with more nimble handling. This along with the Mustang and Camaro getting smaller as evidenced already by the rumors of the 6th. Gen. Camaro and next Mustang.
All do to warranty concerns, reliability issues and the insurance industry. Not to mention the never ending race for better gas mileage and green cars.

You can never have enough power!

The gentlemen's agreement WAS in the automotive industry. . . You'll see zoltek and other major CF manufacturers making deals with the big 3. You'll see power coming down or at least peaking near where it is and weight dropping for increased performance. You can face-palm all you want, but that's what is going to happen whether you like it or not. CAFE standards and demand for higher efficiency will lead that way.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

Where am I getting this domination from? Simple, the Mustang with a SRA outhandles a car with a much more sophisitcated IRS and it shouldn't. In theory an IRS is a better system in the handling department. How it's applied is a different story. The M3 got it right, the Camaro didn't. Sometimes that better ride quality isn't worth something more important in a performance car...handling. Whether it's by a mile or a tenth of a second the camaro isn't winning.

Take away 250lbs? Just like that? Are you some kind of magician?
IRS would win you're right as proven by the M3. However they could of, would of or should of is pointless. GM didn't and that's all that matters. GM won't just drop 250lbs from the 5th. Gen. without redesigning a heavy portion of the car itself.

The camaro didnt get the IRS right when it is neck and neck with the mustang GT while being 250lbs heavier and slower in a strait line?

A camaro is a failure at .1 tenth behind a car that you consider sex on wheels? So what is the mustang then...barely acceptable?
If the driver of the GT in that test had his foot slip off of the pedal you would be ripping on the mustang right now? Again...I am not following your logic.

Just because it doesnt beat the mustang GT doesnt make it a failure. I know you mustang fanboys feel like you are in heaven right now but c'mon...look at the data LOL

The camaros IRS must be the "magician"

BTW...you did nothing in your post to refute my point of the IRS being the better choice...just blindly ripped on the camaro...nice move once again. Remember you said the SRA in the mustang is what makes the difference and thats what we were discussing. Which is totally false BTW. The mustang would be faster if it had an IRS and the camaro would be faster if it lost 300lbs. Everyone seems to understand that except you.

[Dyk-NO]

I just want to share something, My good friend bought a 2011 v6 mustang for only 15k some military guy got a emergency deployment he got hids and a magnaflow axle back already on the car cars soo nice...

But after a week he posted on facebook that his power steering got busted, maybe he got carried away or no wonder why it's so cheap I don't know hope it gets fix pretty soon. It's currently at the dealer right now.

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The camaro didnt get the IRS right when it is neck and neck with the mustang GT while being 250lbs heavier and slower in a strait line?

A camaro is a failure at .1 tenth behind a car that you consider sex on wheels? So what is the mustang then...barely acceptable?
If the driver of the GT in that test had his foot slip off of the pedal you would be ripping on the mustang right now? Again...I am not following your logic.

Just because it doesnt beat the mustang GT doesnt make it a failure. I know you mustang fanboys feel like you are in heaven right now but c'mon...look at the data LOL

The camaros IRS must be the "magician"

BTW...you did nothing in your post to refute my point of the IRS being the better choice...just blindly ripped on the camaro...nice move once again. Remember you said the SRA in the mustang is what makes the difference and thats what we were discussing. Which is totally false BTW. The mustang would be faster if it had an IRS and the camaro would be faster if it lost 300lbs. Everyone seems to understand that except you.

I agree with this right here.
The IRS in the SS is the best thing to happen to the Camaro honestly. It handle way better then my SRA did in my wondering years (when I owned a 200 Mustang). I get the improved cornering plus I can still whip the rear end around corners like I could with a SRA. Too the mustang has always had a weight advantage over the Camaro, no surprise here, IMO The Camaro is just higher quality in the running gear than a mustang. Always has been again IMO. I will say I am glad to see American muscle has returned. I wish the Challenger didn't look like a Charger or 300C on the inside too but oh well glad to see the Big 3 at it again. Regardless of who is wining stock by .1 of a second. I will forever be in love with any and all camaros.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by Dyk-NO

I just want to share something, My good friend bought a 2011 v6 mustang for only 15k some military guy got a emergency deployment he got hids and a magnaflow axle back already on the car cars soo nice...

But after a week he posted on facebook that his power steering got busted, maybe he got carried away or no wonder why it's so cheap I don't know hope it gets fix pretty soon. It's currently at the dealer right now.

$15 seems very low for a 2011 V6, are you sure it wasn't a 2010? The 2011's have electronic steering which is an upgrade over the 2010's.

[Americanmuscle11]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

The camaro didnt get the IRS right when it is neck and neck with the mustang GT while being 250lbs heavier and slower in a strait line?

The Camaro didn't get the IRS right. It's too heavy and large of a car for an IRS to be useful in handling. It's slower around a track with what is usually a more advantageous component then a car with an axle more suited for a dragstrip. Laugh all you want, Ford sure is.

A camaro is a failure at .1 tenth behind a car that you consider sex on wheels? So what is the mustang then...barely acceptable?
If the driver of the GT in that test had his foot slip off of the pedal you would be ripping on the mustang right now? Again...I am not following your logic.

Since when is the Camaro a failure? Your word's not mine. It's components and the overall package combined aren't great, but it certainly isn't a failure. You consider the Camaro "sex on wheels". I do not. The Mustang is faster, handles better and is cheaper. Oh and since we are on the topic of asthetics I think the Camaro has a more thorough design, though the Mustang still looks great. Here you go again with the "IF" garbage again. If the Camaro driver fell asleep the Camaro would hit the gaurdrail. Follow that logic.

Just because it doesnt beat the mustang GT doesnt make it a failure. I know you mustang fanboys feel like you are in heaven right now but c'mon...look at the data LOL

The more powerful, IRS equipped Camaro getting beat by a less powerful less sophisticated Mustang isn't a good thing. Heaven? Nah. Knowing Ford built a faster, better handling car for a more affordable price is pretty up lifting though.

The camaros IRS must be the "magician"

The Camaro's IRS is part of the reason it can't beat a Mustang with a sra.

BTW...you did nothing in your post to refute my point of the IRS being the better choice...just blindly ripped on the camaro...nice move once again. Remember you said the SRA in the mustang is what makes the difference and thats what we were discussing. Which is totally false BTW. The mustang would be faster if it had an IRS and the camaro would be faster if it lost 300lbs. Everyone seems to understand that except you.

Don't have to. The IRS in a car built for an IRS system first hand is a different story then one that isn't. BMW M3 was built to house an IRS and performs the way a car should with one. It's also a lot more expensive.
The Mustang is lighter by 250lbs you said this and this combined with the sra does make the mustang the better handling car. Not false by the way.
How would the Mustang be faster with an IRS? That's adding a lot more weight. One of the reasons Ford didn't go this route. The compromise in ride quality if any at all was well worth the handling gains.

Unless it's made out of much lighter materials like an M3 adding this type of suspension for handling is worthless. Cost is another reason Ford didn't opt for the IRS in this Mustang. The Camaro would be faster if it lost 300lbs. This meaning a new lighter IRS system would be needed and the way it's currently built that won't happen.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Dyk-NO

I just want to share something, My good friend bought a 2011 v6 mustang for only 15k some military guy got a emergency deployment he got hids and a magnaflow axle back already on the car cars soo nice...

But after a week he posted on facebook that his power steering got busted, maybe he got carried away or no wonder why it's so cheap I don't know hope it gets fix pretty soon. It's currently at the dealer right now.

Uhh, that's probably because he got it for 15k. Sounds like somebody wrecked it to me.

Anywho, this whole SRA vs IRS debate is stupid. By design, IRS is a superior basis for handling, while SRA is a superior platform for traction on even surfaces. This is neither here nor there as these statements apply to a "perfect world" just like the idea that OHC is theoretically superior to OHV. It is completely dependent on the application and the execution of the design in said application. In the case in question, the mustang's SRA is executed better than any SRA to ever be used in a production vehicle, period. The IRS in the Camaro is about middle-ground when it comes to execution, but that's only because IRS is used in every other performance vehicle around. The two designs perform right on par with each other in their current platforms, with the mustang having a slight advantage because of it's weight. It honestly doesn't matter which basic design is better because the fact remains that these two cars (m6 vs m6) are insanely close and it will always come down to the driver.

[Dyk-NO]

I don't really believe him that it's a 2011 but yea he showed me the title and it is but now I'm messing around with him that's why it's cheap cos somebody already broke something in it anyways his repairs are free though.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

Don't have to. The IRS in a car built for an IRS system first hand is a different story then one that isn't. BMW M3 was built to house an IRS and performs the way a car should with one. It's also a lot more expensive.
The Mustang is lighter by 250lbs you said this and this combined with the sra does make the mustang the better handling car. Not false by the way.
How would the Mustang be faster with an IRS? That's adding a lot more weight. One of the reasons Ford didn't go this route. The compromise in ride quality if any at all was well worth the handling gains.

Unless it's made out of much lighter materials like an M3 adding this type of suspension for handling is worthless. Cost is another reason Ford didn't opt for the IRS in this Mustang. The Camaro would be faster if it lost 300lbs. This meaning a new lighter IRS system would be needed and the way it's currently built that won't happen.

Wow there is alot of fail in that post. But there is no doubt Ford has done a great job with overcoming the SRA natural flaws. On smooth pavement there is no difference, but on uneven pavement your statement is totaly false. Also handeling of a car is affected by more than just what type of rear suspension is used. Like the wheel/tire combo, shocks, swaybars etc.... The camaro suspension is not currently set for a road course. But it would not surprise me if there is some some suspension bits from the z/28 that gets trickled down to the SS for the 2012 model year, similar to the track pack like the 2010 mustang. compared to the 2010 mustang (without track pack) the camaro handles faaaaar better, that what it was designed to compete with and succeeded. Ford has responded for the 2011 model year, so its GMs turn for 2012 model year which is the 45th year aniversary, so I am sure they have something cooking. In other words if some of our mustang comrades think that the camaro in its 2nd model year is at present the best its going to get until the 6th gen camaro, Then I think one should try taking the blue oval glasses off. In the end enthusiast wins.

[DeathChill]

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

In a purely racing scenario since we are talking about SRA vs IRS, all I hear is you have to be on smooth pavement to handle well, "the SRA sucks if there is a bumpy road" I ask you this? who races on destroyed bumpy roads? never seen it.

No one, but I'm not sure if you realize these are mass-produced cars that are designed to be driven by regular people. Give regular people the option of smooth sailing over a bumpy road or feeling the bumps and see which one they pick. It's the same thing with visibility: people are going to pick better visibility over worse visibility.

Both Ford and GM have gone different routes in certain areas and I don't think either is perfect.