My LLT is BLOWN! Connecting rod is loose...

[Camarodriver]

Well I have bad news.... GM opted only to fix the engine, even though the main bearing twisted in the block one or several times... the mechanic shook his head alot, but said he would do his best to get the engine cleaned out of all metal filings that certainly propagated to all parts of the block. I can see scoring at several places, metal bits still cling to the block all around... YUCK! As I left the shop, I saw the mechanic using a steel brush drill bit to hone the scoring from one of the cylinder walls...jeez this ain't making me happpy..

The GM district service manager was actually at the dealership assessing this issue and spoke with me about GM policies etc. She was very nice and professional but in the end only offered me this... She said that the job was $4000 to fix or $10000 to replace the engine. She "offered" for me to pay for the $6000 difference and get the new engine. Not fair in my opinion... How is this my fault? She and the service manager also assured me that the engine would be "better" than new once repaired and as a certified car guy i just didn't see how that was possible... They did claim that this has never happened to any other LLT, I hope that this is true, but also hope that they could do better considering.

Exploring my options, we arrived at several scenarios....

#1 - I trade back my 2010 2LT M6 car (retail $34,000) and get ONLY $20,000! This could go against a 2LT 2011 that retails now for $35,000 but I cough up $15000 more... OUCH OUCH OUCH.

#2 - I trade back my 2010 2LT M6 car for a 2010 2SS M6 Yellow Camaro with 4000 KMS for $18,000 more. Still OUCH as I have 18" Heritage winter wheels for winter driving so this is going to cost me much more regardless.

#3 - I shut up, take my car back and hope that nothing more happens....*SIGH*

I am a LONG TERM GM GUY and just hope that the General will be better to me than this....

I did check with the Black book value through GM Canada's website and according to what I was quoted, I should expect $27,000 to $29,000 as a current value NOT $20,000. THIS makes more sense to me, as I would stand to lose up to $6000 in 9 months, but not lose $14000.... what do you all think?

Miserable Camarodriver: eB

[toesuf94]

Wow. That is a mess.

I honestly have a hard time believing that they are not replacing that engine with THAT MUCH internal scoring from the crank on the block!

However, with that said: keep your car but make them give you a really good warranty on that motor/entire car.

Chances are, you will not have another problem with her again...but cover your ass.

[formare]

I am literally feeling I'll for you. You definitely spun a bearing. It happens in rebuilds not all the time but it's not unheard of. The odds of the engine leaking or blowing a head gasket in the future is much higher now that the engine is apart. Also, let's hope he knows which pistons came from which cylinders if not the rotaing assembly will not have the same balance as it did at break in causing even more wear issues.

[Camarodriver]

Thanks to all of you, I cannot tell you what it means to me to have this emotional support. I know that sounds silly and all, but I am hurting here and frankly sad about. The whole mess! I was perfectly happy with my 2LT, I ordered it exactly as I wanted it... I didn't ask for this PITA situation, it just manifested itself without warning.

Several of you have made some comments that I didn't think about until I read them, like the scoring on the block from the crank. it's pretty bad, is that normal? I only ran super unleaded, but the heads look very dirty, is this normal? Also, the pistons were just dumped onto the shelf, will they go back in the same way? Will the balance of the engine be affected? Why did they pull the entire drivetrain out when they could have pilled only the cradle out to gain access to the bottom end? It looks like you need to pull the whole thing out now that I think about it, as the drivetrain is placed onto the cradle and lifted into the body, just like we all saw in the NG Ultimate Factories Camaro.

Anyone know I'f the 18" heritage steel wheels fit on the SS? I may need to trade them in then....


Tks all, really appreciate all comments!

eB

[rays]

That really sucks. I don't think the wheels will clear the brembos on the SS.

[formare]

The heads look pretty normal to me and I don't think I saw any scoring on the block or main journals.

[usa1camaro1969]

Heritage wheels won't fit the SS.
They pulled the whole drivetrain so they could have a look at the whole drivetrain. These cars seem to run extra-rich(look at the exhaust and see how black they get).

There is something they told you that I believe may have not been really true. They said that this was the first time they'd ever had this happen to an LLT. If I were Chevrolet, and this was the first LLT that had this issue, why would they not box the whole thing up, take it back to wherever they're making these engines, and have some engineers find out why. I would want to know why.
What parts are being replaced? $4k is not much when you consider it's dealer prices. I'd definitely ask for a new crank, and if you get a new crank, I'd ask what the plan would be to ensure the motor would still be in balance.
Ask your mechanic friend about the scoring(it's hard to tell if it's scoring or if it's the way the block was machined.
Ask for the drivetrain warranty to be started from scratch, if not ask to talk to someone who can authorize it.

Good luck.

[Camarodriver]

Thank you usa1, this is awesome advice. I spoke with a buddy of mine that is a tech that programs robots for Ford's robotic engine assembly line and he said I should get a new engine. he mentioned that in my pictures, the pistons are all not numbered and that ey could be re-installed in an incorrect order, messing up the engine's balance.... Yuck! I also agree with another poster above, if this is the first time, why would they not want to examine this mill and give me a fresh one to keep me quiet!?

I will not sit down on this, I feel like I am being wronged....


Thanks again to all of you for your views, I really appreciate it!

eB

[2010SLVRBULIT]

Yikes!!..how about a different engine altogether?
..and those headers look like in need of rust-o-leum

[spyderbuddy]

I don't know about anyone else here, but that looks like time for a NEW Engine. You tell them to replace the engine and not to rebuild it. They need to find out what cause the bearing to spin.

[motorhead]

I would not except anything other than a new motor or at the very least a short block.
That engine is a mess. I've built a lot of motors over the years ,and I can tell you I'll be amazed if the doesn't drop bearings again. Did they say if they are going to check the crank or replace? Did they say if they were going do an align bore check to make sure the block isn't twisted. Something major went wrong and if the don't find out what it will happen again.

It sure seems like there is way too many problems with these motors. It worries me that I just bought my wife a 2011 traverse. I hope they got the bugs out by now.

[philthy]

Have you tried calling GM Customer Service at 1-866-509-9090? I have read on this forum to call them for various issues and get an SR number. They will work with your dealer and district rep to get the problem solved. What they are proposing at this point does not sound fair at all.

[BlackinBlack]

My 2 cents. It looks like they are going to have to do a total rebuild to save that motor. Honestly that is not a big deal.... with no cracking or parts that cannot be re-machined into spec the motor could even be built better than factory. (IE Blueprinted.)

The thing is you would have to demand they do it. I would want the block honed (at least a finishing hone).... new pistons and rings.... rotating assembly balanced and blueprinted... block align bored which with a spun bearing is almost a no brainer to do. I would have the block basically blueprinted to ensure it is square and true. Also would do the same to the heads. (If that is done the motor would have no chance of blowing a head gasket or other leaks.)

To do it right it would cost them more than just replacing the engine. For me a correctly rebuilt engine would be as good as a new one. (With the right people doing the work it could be better. Think hand built custom production motor AKA LS9) But you would have to watch them to ensure they do it right.

My recommendation is to educate yourself on the proper why to fix a spun bearing/ rebuild a motor. Then use that knowledge to ensure that fix the car to your satisfaction. Don't settle.... make them do it right.

Good luck. I am sure you will get them to make it right.

BTW Looks like the mechanic is on your side. (The guy is taking pictures for you and giving you information.) Use that relationship to build your case. A case of beer to a honest nice guy is tons cheaper than paying out of pocket for a new motor.

EDIT: One other thing. The bearing spun for a reason. To make a permanent repair they need to figure out why and fix the underlying problem.

[Camarodriver]

To all,

I had a very close friend of mine that works in the automotive industry look at this thread and weigh in with his technical analysis of what actually transpired. Take a look at what he said, take a look at the photos he provided.

talk soon! Thanks Mike (my buddy) for your time looking at this!

eB

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It looks like the mechanic placed the pistons in order on the bench, so he will remember where they came from, So would not worry about that.

The source of the damage seems to be from the drilling of the oil journals, a bur must have been left behind that didn’t get flushed out. If the bur was from the block it would have been aluminum, and the hard bearings and crank would have assimilated the aluminum and the oil would have flushed it out. That little bit of steel got caught in the connecting rod bearing which is softer than the steel and gouged a grove large enough to be a chamber in the bearing to prevent the crank/connecting rod from floating on the oil. That is when it went from a tick to a clunk.
This would have been very difficult to detect in production, the cranks are ground at a different plant than the engine assembly. The grinding and drilling relies on the volume and pressure of the cutting oil to displace any metal shavings. Apart from passing a pipe cleaner through that journal, if the cutting oil didn’t flush it, it would go undetected.

The term ‘spun bearing’ is not true in this case, it did not spin, it was scored by contamination.

When the short block is assembled a “Crank Torque To Turn” is done on a test jig (I presume/hope GM does this as well, the only line we do this for GM is LS3) to make sure everything is running smooth. A measurement is take of how much torque is need to ‘Breakaway’ (get it to start turning), and how much torque is needed to keep it spinning ‘running’ This what the results of Pv8 6.2 Ford engine looks like…

The defect in your crank would not have been detected by this test because the metal chip has not yet gotten lodged in the bearing to create the drag.


This is not scoring from the crank, that is part of the machining process so the crank clears the block.


I agree with what the last guy posted on Camaro5 BlackinBlack Thu 9:51 am, you should at least get a new crank and bearings. The ideal would be a new motor, a new short block would be acceptable too, I think you should try and fight for that, you will probably get them to do that. If they do rebuild get it balanced too, that is what the running torque test detects.

In hind sight when you heard that clunk, you should have driven to the dealer full throttle in first gear and tried to get it to throw the rod! But how were you to know?



FYI this is the assembly/test sequence of a typical V8

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