GM AUGUST 2010 SALES DOWN 11%, 184,921 UNITS SOLD

[TaylorRyanSS]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Chevrolet needs a solid full size sedan offering. The G8 reincarnated! The current Impalla is pathetically outdated compared to the competition.

+1 We had an impala rental car and it was crap. The exterior is very ugly and the gauges inside looked like something from the 90s. The car felt super cheap. The impala is long overdue for an update.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And last August, Pontiac got a huge bump. Up 23% while GM as a whole was down 20% vs Aug '08. G5's were probably pretty popular with the cash for clunkers program.

It'll be interesting to see the Canadian figures, where this disparity between Pontiac and Buick will be even greater, %-wise, and there was NO C4C in Canada...

Up there, the Chev dealers still haven't "transitioned" properly to selling Buicks in the numbers previously enjoyed per capita (dealer), while Pontiac sold in numbers very close to Chev.

The "proof" of this will be when you see GMC sales plummet, because Chev stores still prefer selling Silverado and are NOT stocking GMCs in nearly comparable numbers. A source tells me, where Silverado used to enjoy 55-60% of the Canadian GM Truck sales, that number will balloon to close to 80% ...

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Chevrolet needs a solid full size sedan offering. The G8 reincarnated! The current Impalla is pathetically outdated compared to the competition.

Its already been made..its called the Caprice. It's being made for entry into the incredibibly huge (and currently Charger dominated) Law Enforcement fleet sales.

If it does well a "SS" version may be made for the civilian market. It's basically a longer wheelbase G8.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

It'll be interesting to see the Canadian figures, where this disparity between Pontiac and Buick will be even greater, %-wise, and there was NO C4C in Canada...

Up there, the Chev dealers still haven't "transitioned" properly to selling Buicks in the numbers previously enjoyed per capita (dealer), while Pontiac sold in numbers very close to Chev.

The "proof" of this will be when you see GMC sales plummet, because Chev stores still prefer selling Silverado and are NOT stocking GMCs in nearly comparable numbers. A source tells me, where Silverado used to enjoy 55-60% of the Canadian GM Truck sales, that number will balloon to close to 80% ...

Canadian market doesn't really mean anything in the big picture. Sure, Pontiac is popular up here. But in the grand scheme of things for every car sold up here there are around 10 sold in the US. So while Pontiac might even have had a 2:1 sales advantage over Buick in Canada, thats going to be less than 10k units. I can't get exact figures on Buick sales in China, but in trying to find it, I discovered that it took them 3 years to sell 1 million Buicks. And sales are growing. So there is an easy 300k unit (probably 350k) advantage in China for Buick vs Pontiac, since Pontiac wasn't even sold there. Add it up and the 2 countries buying Pontiacs might work out to about 200k units. While the 3 buying Buicks total well over 400k.

[BigDan]

Originally Posted by TaylorRyan74

+1 We had an impala rental car and it was crap. The exterior is very ugly and the gauges inside looked like something from the 90s. The car felt super cheap. The impala is long overdue for an update.

Is it the same chassis as the 97 if so that's just sad. I wouldn't mind a blown 5.3L sleeper SS though.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by BigDan

Is it the same chassis as the 97 if so that's just sad. I wouldn't mind a blown 5.3L sleeper SS though.

No, it got a redesign in 2005 I think. Thats when they replaced the supercharged 3800's with the LS4.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

No, it got a redesign in 2005 I think. Thats when they replaced the supercharged 3800's with the LS4.

The last redesign was in 06, but the chais itself, though modified and upgraded during the years, dates back to the otigional Lumina from around 1988 i believe,

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

So there is an easy 300k unit (probably 350k) advantage in China for Buick vs Pontiac, since Pontiac wasn't even sold there.

Since Pontiacs were never sold in China, we'll never know, will we? Strictly a GM decision...good, bad, or otherwise...

And ALL these Buicks being sold in China are assembled and sourced WHERE? The direct benefits for North Americans?

GM, being a less-than-50% owner of their Chinese operations (by law!), is therefore making half the money they could/should if that investment was made HERE, per comparable unit, and is forced to reinvest the vast majority of those profits in CHINA to expand operations and engineer to "local" specifics... It's kinda like NUMMI in reverse...

Great corporate policy, a little less so for North Americans, the reason the company still exists...

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

Its already been made..its called the Caprice. It's being made for entry into the incredibibly huge (and currently Charger dominated) Law Enforcement fleet sales.

If it does well a "SS" version may be made for the civilian market. It's basically a longer wheelbase G8.

Something like this?

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Something like this?

To be exact..this:

[Blownhotrodder]

Go Chrysler!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Since Pontiacs were never sold in China, we'll never know, will we? Strictly a GM decision...good, bad, or otherwise...

And ALL these Buicks being sold in China are assembled and sourced WHERE? The direct benefits for North Americans?

GM, being a less-than-50% owner of their Chinese operations (by law!), is therefore making half the money they could/should if that investment was made HERE, per comparable unit, and is forced to reinvest the vast majority of those profits in CHINA to expand operations and engineer to "local" specifics... It's kinda like NUMMI in reverse...

Great corporate policy, a little less so for North Americans, the reason the company still exists...

Answer me this:

How do you figure that it would have been a better business decision for GM to keep Pontiac than Buick? The way I see it, they sold more Buicks with more profit on each of them. That leads to a much higher total brand profit, even when you take away some from their Chinese operations.

I'd love to have a strong Pontiac brand still around. That said, I accept the logic in killing it instead of Buick. If the majority of the sales are for fleet, the brand has no identity anymore, nothing too substantial in the product pipeline, and minimal profit (if any) ... why keep it?

[FenwickHockey65]

Competition figures fully updated.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Answer me this:

How do you figure that it would have been a better business decision for GM to keep Pontiac than Buick? The way I see it, they sold more Buicks with more profit on each of them. That leads to a much higher total brand profit, even when you take away some from their Chinese operations.

I'd love to have a strong Pontiac brand still around. That said, I accept the logic in killing it instead of Buick. If the majority of the sales are for fleet, the brand has no identity anymore, nothing too substantial in the product pipeline, and minimal profit (if any) ... why keep it?

You're making THREE key points, here, based on WHAT?

1) Have you got published proof of the Buick profits/unit vs. Pontiac? Taking into account the monies they MUST pay the Chinese as a MAJORITY stakeholder?

2) Majority of Pontiac's collective sales were NOT fleet... That's an "urban legend".

3) Pontiac's lack of product development and identity were WHO'S FAULT? Susan Docherty? Or GM's management board?!

4) Since you keep harping on Buick's success elsewhere, was Pontiac EVER CONSIDERED in "other markets"? And if not, why not? WITH FACTS, please, NOT conjecture...

Sadly...very sadly, just as they did to Olds' 300,000 owners circa 2000, and Pontiac's 300,000 owners circa 2008, Buick is the only non-Chev show in town for "regular" folks. And that was, again, whose fault?