Shelby preparing twin-turbo GT500 package with 1000 hp and $100,000 price tag

[Sawyer]

this sounds like the next gen KR...

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by RedlineSS

this sounds like the next gen KR...

something worthy of the name

[derklug]

Properly used, a car is not an investment. Imagine signing Pavoratti to a contract and not letting him sing, or Barry Sanders and not letting him play for fear of injury, or Michael Jordan and holding him in reserve. Buying these cars and putting them away for some future payout is just wrong. I want people to buy them and beat the living hell out of them, anything less makes all the engineering wasted. Granted, it won't be me, I can't justify 100k on a car. It would make the wife testy.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

In '97, I bought and fully restored a '70 Buick GS Stage 1 Convertible for less money than a then-current Camaro SS. I still have that car, now with an extra 3,500 miles on it. Appraisal in hand, and insurance in place, for something in the upper range of this:

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.as...&z=13148&da=-1

That's a better return than my 401(k) over the same period...

And NO '97 Camaro SS is worth this kinda dough...not even the 1-of-100 LT4s...

I see a lot of folks reference the highest values for their restored car and then I actually see the car which, while very nice, it isn't even within sniffing distance of 100 points. If you reference that value for you car then I have to assume that every part, or close to it, on your car is pristine NOS or fully accurate reproduction? (and very little of that even as any non original piece hurts the value)

A restored 80-89 point car can and often does look perfect but loses mega-points for what most would term minor infractions that cost a small fortune to right. Those parts don't look bad, in fact they appear and often are brand new, they also aren't correct. I just went over a Thunderbird Sports Roadster the guy touted as being a nearly perfect, restored car and, while everything looked absolutely perfect, after closer inspection he had a lot of reproduction parts, a lot of incorrect original parts, quite a few modern parts in places he didn't think were important, and a car worth maybe half of what a 95 point car would go for even thought the average Joe couldn't tell his car from a 95 point car if they were sitting side by side. Of course he took offense.

Unless you bought a nearly pristine original to begin with it would be almost impossible to restore a car to anything close to 100 point condition for Camaro SS money, even in 1997.

[LOWDOWN]

You're oh so correct, syr. That's why I said "the upper end" which, half way between $30 and $130-something, would have you on the + side of the "upper end". As to how much it cost to do, well, as a Project Car for a muscle car magazine, it cost a lot less than you might imagine... Parts suppliers and restoration specialists use those venues as "advertising", which I'm most appreciative of...

BTW, 1997 Camaro SS LT4 Number 1 (earlier Serial Number than Rick Hendrick's supposed #1; known as C-001), was for sale last year @ $75,000, pristine, with 4,000 miles. Not a nibble, not an offer... That car stickered for almost $40,000.

2 '70 Stage 1 Converts have recently changed hands...the "cheap" one brought $100,000+...

As mentioned, "appraisal in hand, and insurance in place".

Re: the Sports Roadster...

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.as...&z=13148&da=-1

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by derklug

Properly used, a car is not an investment. Imagine signing Pavoratti to a contract and not letting him sing, or Barry Sanders and not letting him play for fear of injury, or Michael Jordan and holding him in reserve. Buying these cars and putting them away for some future payout is just wrong. I want people to buy them and beat the living hell out of them, anything less makes all the engineering wasted. Granted, it won't be me, I can't justify 100k on a car. It would make the wife testy.

If I could afford it, I could SO justify 100K+ on car. New ZR1 here I come!

[jrc1122]

Car not an investment?

Average person drives 12,000 miles a year.

Avg cab charges approx $2.00 per mile.

12000 x 2 = $24000 per year.

Chevy Cobalt + ttl = what? 15K? 15k @ 5% for 60 months = $283 monthly payment

283 x 12 = $3396 per year -- round up to $3400

$1K a year for tires, alignment, oil changes, etc
$1200 bucks a year for insurance.. guesstimate..

So $3400 +$1000 +$1200 = $5600 bucks
now for gas:
12000 miles/30 mpg = 400 gallons x $2.50 = $1000 gas

So $6600 bucks a year it cost to own operate, maintain, and insure a brand new vehicle.


Granite without a car, you will bum rides, and use family and friends, and become that annoying person who always needs a ride. But lets say you use a cab for even 1/3 of the annual miles driven by the average American.

12000/3= 4K miles a year.
that is 4000 miles x $2 = $8000 a year in cab services.


So even drastically traveling less than the average American - you still lose money ($1400 per year) by taking a cab vs owning an economical car.

Car = Investment.

40K Brand New Camaro SS/RS with every option that sits in your garage and goes out on the weekend. No the term investment would probably be a joke. But a Car can most definitely be a smart investment in general.

Not to mention that after 5 years you will own that car--- and now you will be saving $3400 (payments) + $1600 (savings on cab fare) a year (for probably the next 5 years). 5K x 5 yrs = $25K in the bank, and that allows you the freedom to travel 3 times as much, whenever you want where ever you want. Not waiting for cabs, or friends, or family to tote you around.


Cliff notes: Cars can easily be an investment.

Those who disagree obviously are thinking about it being a depreciation asset.. That is a different thing than being an Investment.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

Car not an investment?

Average person drives 12,000 miles a year.

Avg cab charges approx $2.00 per mile.

12000 x 2 = $24000 per year.

Chevy Cobalt + ttl = what? 15K? 15k @ 5% for 60 months = $283 monthly payment

283 x 12 = $3396 per year -- round up to $3400

$1K a year for tires, alignment, oil changes, etc
$1200 bucks a year for insurance.. guesstimate..

So $3400 +$1000 +$1200 = $5600 bucks
now for gas:
12000 miles/30 mpg = 400 gallons x $2.50 = $1000 gas

So $6600 bucks a year it cost to own operate, maintain, and insure a brand new vehicle.


Granite without a car, you will bum rides, and use family and friends, and become that annoying person who always needs a ride. But lets say you use a cab for even 1/3 of the annual miles driven by the average American.

12000/3= 4K miles a year.
that is 4000 miles x $2 = $8000 a year in cab services.


So even drastically traveling less than the average American - you still lose money ($1400 per year) by taking a cab vs owning an economical car.

Car = Investment.

40K Brand New Camaro SS/RS with every option that sits in your garage and goes out on the weekend. No the term investment would probably be a joke. But a Car can most definitely be a smart investment in general.

Not to mention that after 5 years you will own that car--- and now you will be saving $3400 (payments) + $1600 (savings on cab fare) a year (for probably the next 5 years). 5K x 5 yrs = $25K in the bank, and that allows you the freedom to travel 3 times as much, whenever you want where ever you want. Not waiting for cabs, or friends, or family to tote you around.


Cliff notes: Cars can easily be an investment.

Those who disagree obviously are thinking about it being a depreciation asset.. That is a different thing than being an Investment.

Great post!

[syr74]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

You're oh so correct, syr. That's why I said "the upper end" which, half way between $30 and $130-something, would have you on the + side of the "upper end". As to how much it cost to do, well, as a Project Car for a muscle car magazine, it cost a lot less than you might imagine... Parts suppliers and restoration specialists use those venues as "advertising", which I'm most appreciative of...

BTW, 1997 Camaro SS LT4 Number 1 (earlier Serial Number than Rick Hendrick's supposed #1; known as C-001), was for sale last year @ $75,000, pristine, with 4,000 miles. Not a nibble, not an offer... That car stickered for almost $40,000.

2 '70 Stage 1 Converts have recently changed hands...the "cheap" one brought $100,000+...

As mentioned, "appraisal in hand, and insurance in place".

Re: the Sports Roadster...

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.as...&z=13148&da=-1

Good enough for me, always nice to see somebody who truly does know what they have.

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Great post!

Thank you.

Proving common sense and a calculator can go a long way

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by jrc1122

Car not an investment?

Average person drives 12,000 miles a year.

Avg cab charges approx $2.00 per mile.

12000 x 2 = $24000 per year.

Chevy Cobalt + ttl = what? 15K? 15k @ 5% for 60 months = $283 monthly payment

283 x 12 = $3396 per year -- round up to $3400

$1K a year for tires, alignment, oil changes, etc
$1200 bucks a year for insurance.. guesstimate..

So $3400 +$1000 +$1200 = $5600 bucks
now for gas:
12000 miles/30 mpg = 400 gallons x $2.50 = $1000 gas

So $6600 bucks a year it cost to own operate, maintain, and insure a brand new vehicle.


Granite without a car, you will bum rides, and use family and friends, and become that annoying person who always needs a ride. But lets say you use a cab for even 1/3 of the annual miles driven by the average American.

12000/3= 4K miles a year.
that is 4000 miles x $2 = $8000 a year in cab services.


So even drastically traveling less than the average American - you still lose money ($1400 per year) by taking a cab vs owning an economical car.

Car = Investment.

40K Brand New Camaro SS/RS with every option that sits in your garage and goes out on the weekend. No the term investment would probably be a joke. But a Car can most definitely be a smart investment in general.

Not to mention that after 5 years you will own that car--- and now you will be saving $3400 (payments) + $1600 (savings on cab fare) a year (for probably the next 5 years). 5K x 5 yrs = $25K in the bank, and that allows you the freedom to travel 3 times as much, whenever you want where ever you want. Not waiting for cabs, or friends, or family to tote you around.


Cliff notes: Cars can easily be an investment.

Those who disagree obviously are thinking about it being a depreciation asset.. That is a different thing than being an Investment.

If you don't own a car, you don't take a cab everywhere. That would be extremely foolish. Taking a bus on the other hand, does save you a lot of money vs owning most automobiles. A car is not an investment. That's like saying switching to another phone company is an investment simply because you save money when compared to your previous contract. Just because it saves you money from the alternative does NOT mean it is an investment. An investment requires the expectation of profit, by definition, not a lesser cost. Certain vehicles may fall into that category, such as a collectible, but the majority of the time you would be foolish to expect a profit. Me dumping my girlfriend because she is a gold digger is not an investment strategy. You don't buy a car (most cars) to make money off of it and that is an essential characteristic of an investment.

[jrc1122]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

If you don't own a car, you don't take a cab everywhere. That would be extremely foolish. Taking a bus on the other hand, does save you a lot of money vs owning most automobiles. A car is not an investment. That's like saying switching to another phone company is an investment simply because you save money when compared to your previous contract. Just because it saves you money from the alternative does NOT mean it is an investment. An investment requires the expectation of profit, by definition, not a lesser cost. Certain vehicles may fall into that category, such as a collectible, but the majority of the time you would be foolish to expect a profit. Me dumping my girlfriend because she is a gold digger is not an investment strategy. You don't buy a car (most cars) to make money off of it and that is an essential characteristic of an investment.

A. I didn't say everywhere- I said 1/3 of the normal travel.

B. I disagree.

Not all towns, or routes are near public buses. My wife (before we were married) used to take cabs to and from work nearly every day.

Plus investment doesn't mean that you always see a direct monetary gain upon sale of the vehicle.

Another personal example. I drive 2500-3000 miles each month. I invest a certain amount of money into a vehicle because it allows me to earn a good living.

Sure I could take a job making half of what I make without the travel. But the double in pay is solely because I have a reliable car AKA my investment.

So if I can make 50K local, and 100K by expanding my travel.

Does that car cost me 50K a year to gas up, and maintain? Not even close. Maybe 10K including the payment.
So I invested an extra 10K to make 50K for a NET profit of 40K.

If you don't call that an Investment, I don't know what is. That's a 400% return.


Depreciation and Investment = TWO completely different things.

[jrc1122]

As far as a cell phone. I am required for my job to have a cell phone. They provide cell phones for the entire company (those who hold my position)

If they save $30 bucks a month (by switching carriers) on each person. and have lets say 1500 people

1500 x 30 = $45,000 a month! x 12 = $540,000

So switching plans to save money gives my company Five Hundred, forty thousand dollars a year. $540,000.

If you don't call saving $540K that IS reinvested back into the company for future growth, a smart Investment. then I don't know what to tell you.

[jrc1122]

what is funny my money I decided to invest into my car, is proving to be much more of a financial winner than my 401K over the past few years.

Odd--- My decision to own a car has made me more money than "INVESTING" my money with Fidelity.

How can that be,, I mean buying a car isn't an investment (please note sarcasm)
and putting money into a 401K is by all considered INVESTING. ODD?