Adjustable sway bar setting for daily driver?

[Cammarrah]

So I just read through this thread, and I must say there is some great info in here. I am a little confused though, as this car understeers so bad from the factory, I would want to upgrade both front and rear sway bars. That is just me. But I am performance minded.

I've been trolling this forum for a while now, seems to get more and more good info being posted everyday. Finally got my 2010 and the mod bug has hit! Thanks guys for posting up with this stuff.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Cammarrah

So I just read through this thread, and I must say there is some great info in here. I am a little confused though, as this car understeers so bad from the factory, I would want to upgrade both front and rear sway bars. That is just me. But I am performance minded.

I've been trolling this forum for a while now, seems to get more and more good info being posted everyday. Finally got my 2010 and the mod bug has hit! Thanks guys for posting up with this stuff.

Getting your Camaro right for YOU is what this thread is all about. Not everyone wants the same thing in a car and they should have enough information available to get it THIER way. If you are unhappy with the OE understeer you are absolutely correct in wanting to change both OE bars. That is why Pedders offers what amounts to a Daily Driver Solution as described in this thread, a more aggressive Solution B with both bars and a Solution C to go with with the full Justice Package.

You'll find a number of interesting 5th Gen Camaro Videos on Pedders YouTube Channel

[JProberts]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

JP,

Are you still as pleased with your Pedderised Camaro now that you have more miles on it?

Yes I am still satisfied with my Pedderized camaro still getting accustomed to the different feel of the car now and still suprised at how much more planted the car is now. Stepping on it from a start, and breaking hard feels so much more under control now. Had a chance to take some twisties at a nice speed and the car really responds so much better now and no body lean anymore.

For want I wanted out of my car the suggestions you made really nailed it. I'm sure the more I get used to this set-up I'll find some reason to get the rear bar

Thanks again and I am 100% satisfied!

[ssmike]

Wow, amazing informative thread! Thanks Pedders and JP! This is the info I was looking for! I'll be at the Camaro Fall Classic at Summit Racing this Saturday. I heard Pedders was going to be there, is that true? If so I'll be over to see you guys! I'll need pricing for the daily driver setup (front bar and Street I). Thanks!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by ssmike

Wow, amazing informative thread! Thanks Pedders and JP! This is the info I was looking for! I'll be at the Camaro Fall Classic at Summit Racing this Saturday. I heard Pedders was going to be there, is that true? If so I'll be over to see you guys! I'll need pricing for the daily driver setup (front bar and Street I). Thanks!

Thank you. I will be at Summit, but not at a booth selling. I'll be there as a Camaro enthusiast and looking forward to meeting you and many others. My Dealers can handle the sales. I want to relax and be a car guy like the rest of you.

[h2oplay]

justicepete,

After following some posts, I'm interested in the DD package, will there be any specials at summit this weekend? I think this is perfect for my needs

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Thank you. I will be at Summit, but not at a booth selling. I'll be there as a Camaro enthusiast and looking forward to meeting you and many others. My Dealers can handle the sales. I want to relax and be a car guy like the rest of you.

Look for my car GEN5SSRS plate number. It would be great to meet you! See you there!

Mike

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by h2oplay

justicepete,

After following some posts, I'm interested in the DD package, will there be any specials at summit this weekend? I think this is perfect for my needs

I hadn't thought about it, but since you ask the answer is yes. Stop by and see me. I'll be the guy wearing a Pedders shirt 10% off parts and 10% off installation at ALL Pedders Dealers as long as you hunt me down and say hello.

[h2oplay]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I hadn't thought about it, but since you ask the answer is yes. Stop by and see me. I'll be the guy wearing a Pedders shirt 10% off parts and 10% off installation at ALL Pedders Dealers as long as you hunt me down and say hello.

will do...

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I hadn't thought about it, but since you ask the answer is yes. Stop by and see me. I'll be the guy wearing a Pedders shirt 10% off parts and 10% off installation at ALL Pedders Dealers as long as you hunt me down and say hello.

Pete, thanks for taking time to talk to me today at the show! It was a pleasure meeting you! Are there any Pedders authorized installation shops in the Buffalo, western NY area? Thanks!

[JProberts]

Question for your Pete, with the Pedders upgrades I have already done (front sway bar and rear sub-frame inserts) what difference should I expect to feel in the cars ride quality if I add lowering springs?

I really like the ride quality I have now and don't want that to change at all, just drop the height for improved looks.

What adverse affects could lowering springs have on the ride quality of my car?

Thanks

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by JProberts

Question for your Pete, with the Pedders upgrades I have already done (front sway bar and rear sub-frame inserts) what difference should I expect to feel in the cars ride quality if I add lowering springs?

I really like the ride quality I have now and don't want that to change at all, just drop the height for improved looks.

What adverse affects could lowering springs have on the ride quality of my car?

Thanks

All lowering coils including Pedders will alter the ride quality. That is due in large part to jounce travel. Jounce or bound travel is the distance the spring can compress from normal at rest height to fully compressed bump stop. 40mm is typical in a GM car. 40mm is about an inch and a half. If you lower the car an inch you would think there is only a half inch of jounce travel. That would be incorrect. When suspension companies design lowering coils they increase rate so the vehicle doesn't compress as far as the softer OE coils. Put two people in your Camaro on OE coils and see how much they compress. You check this by measuring ride height before you load the car and while it is loaded. Ride height is easily measured. Get a metric tape measure and hook the metal end into the lower wheel lip. Measure up through the wheel center to the painted edge of the fender. Do this on a level surface with the wheels straight and a 1/4 tank of fuel. Typical of a Camaro SS would be measurements in the 585 to 590mm range empty. By measuring you now know what your at rest ride heights are.

This is a good point to talk about how lowering coils are sold. OE coils and most after market coils have a loaded height variation of +/- 15mm or just over 5/8s of an inch. If you Camaro has OE coils on the low side of the acceptable variation and your new lowering coils are on the high side of the variation a 1" drop coil may only drop your car 1/2 inch. That is why Pedders shows ride height as opposed to drops for lowering coils. ALL Pedders coils are tested and verfied to be within a loaded height variation of +/- 1mm. If you have measured the ride height of your Camaro you will know from Pedders stated ride height almost exactly what the ride height difference will be with 1mm. You will see how this correlates to ride quality in a moment.

When loaded your Camaro will drop considerably with the OE coils. The loaded height is what we at Pedders refer to as effective ride height. With an after market lowering coil the rate will be higher. With the higher coil rate the loaded / effective ride height difference will not be as dramatic. That means the effective ride height of a modest drop will be close to OE. The lower you drop your Camaro with lowering spring the less jounce / bound travel there will be. Some companies address this by cutting the progressive OE bump stop. Cutting the most progressive material from a bump stop creates a more abrupt harsher bumpstop. I get flamed for writing this, but there is no way around it. When you cut off the top of the bump stop you create a more abrupt bump stop. That alters OE ride quality.

To answer your question specifically with Pedders lowering coils we have a very conservative drop coil range for the Camaro. Pedders lowering coils do NOT require you to cut the bumpstop. They do ride more European than the OE Camaro coils. They are not as smooth over rough pavement as the OE coils. They are NOT boy racer F-Body jarring. They would compare favorably to what you would find on a sport model Audi. Audi has the most enthusiast tuned suspensions of Benz, BMW and Audi. Some of their sport models are so tight that I think they impair sales in the USA. Pedders Camaro lowering coils ride better than the Audi. They are sport coils and ride well, just not as well as OE.

I have seen posts on the forum that make the claim fill in the blank lowering coils ride just like OE. That deifies logic and is simply not accurate. The more conservative the drop, the less you drop your Camaro the better the ride quality will be with any brand of lowering coil. The best way to lower a Camaro is to use a coilover that preserves jounce / bound travel regardless of ride height. That limits your selection to Pedders Xa and Pedders Supercar coilovers. The Supercar coilovers are by far an away the best riding I have experienced in a Camaro, but that moves the price of lowering up the scale by multiples of lowering coils.

Here is a video of Pedders Coils being made in the building next to our Head Office.

Testing EVERY single coil to a standard of +/- 1mm is unique to Pedders and a great measure of coil quality.

220032 Front Ride Height 657mm with 20" Wheels
220033 Rear Ride Height 660mm with 20" Wheels
220035 Rear Ride Height 675mm with 20" Wheels

Using YOUR actual measurements and Pedders measurements you will know how much YOUR car will be lowered before you lower it.

[JProberts]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

All lowering coils including Pedders will alter the ride quality. That is due in large part to jounce travel. Jounce or bound travel is the distance the spring can compress from normal at rest height to fully compressed bump stop. 40mm is typical in a GM car. 40mm is about an inch and a half. If you lower the car an inch you would think there is only a half inch of jounce travel. That would be incorrect. When suspension companies design lowering coils they increase rate so the vehicle doesn't compress as far as the softer OE coils. Put two people in your Camaro on OE coils and see how much they compress. You check this by measuring ride height before you load the car and while it is loaded. Ride height is easily measured. Get a metric tape measure and hook the metal end into the lower wheel lip. Measure up through the wheel center to the painted edge of the fender. Do this on a level surface with the wheels straight and a 1/4 tank of fuel. Typical of a Camaro SS would be measurements in the 585 to 590mm range empty. By measuring you now know what your at rest ride heights are.

This is a good point to talk about how lowering coils are sold. OE coils and most after market coils have a loaded height variation of +/- 15mm or just over 5/8s of an inch. If you Camaro has OE coils on the low side of the acceptable variation and your new lowering coils are on the high side of the variation a 1" drop coil may only drop your car 1/2 inch. That is why Pedders shows ride height as opposed to drops for lowering coils. ALL Pedders coils are tested and verfied to be within a loaded height variation of +/- 1mm. If you have measured the ride height of your Camaro you will know from Pedders stated ride height almost exactly what the ride height difference will be with 1mm. You will see how this correlates to ride quality in a moment.

When loaded your Camaro will drop considerably with the OE coils. The loaded height is what we at Pedders refer to as effective ride height. With an after market lowering coil the rate will be higher. With the higher coil rate the loaded / effective ride height difference will not be as dramatic. That means the effective ride height of a modest drop will be close to OE. The lower you drop your Camaro with lowering spring the less jounce / bound travel there will be. Some companies address this by cutting the progressive OE bump stop. Cutting the most progressive material from a bump stop creates a more abrupt harsher bumpstop. I get flamed for writing this, but there is no way around it. When you cut off the top of the bump stop you create a more abrupt bump stop. That alters OE ride quality.

To answer your question specifically with Pedders lowering coils we have a very conservative drop coil range for the Camaro. Pedders lowering coils do NOT require you to cut the bumpstop. They do ride more European than the OE Camaro coils. They are not as smooth over rough pavement as the OE coils. They are NOT boy racer F-Body jarring. They would compare favorably to what you would find on a sport model Audi. Audi has the most enthusiast tuned suspensions of Benz, BMW and Audi. Some of their sport models are so tight that I think they impair sales in the USA. Pedders Camaro lowering coils ride better than the Audi. They are sport coils and ride well, just not as well as OE.

I have seen posts on the forum that make the claim fill in the blank lowering coils ride just like OE. That deifies logic and is simply not accurate. The more conservative the drop, the less you drop your Camaro the better the ride quality will be with any brand of lowering coil. The best way to lower a Camaro is to use a coilover that preserves jounce / bound travel regardless of ride height. That limits your selection to Pedders Xa and Pedders Supercar coilovers. The Supercar coilovers are by far an away the best riding I have experienced in a Camaro, but that moves the price of lowering up the scale by multiples of lowering coils.

Here is a video of Pedders Coils being made in the building next to our Head Office.

Testing EVERY single coil to a standard of +/- 1mm is unique to Pedders and a great measure of coil quality.

220032 Front Ride Height 657mm with 20" Wheels
220033 Rear Ride Height 660mm with 20" Wheels
220035 Rear Ride Height 675mm with 20" Wheels

Using YOUR actual measurements and Pedders measurements you will know how much YOUR car will be lowered before you lower it.

Thanks for the info Pete

[JusticePete]

There is so much mis-information about the ZETA II Camaro suspension. It is a very capable vehicle off the showroom floor. For most owners the car is next to perfect. The most common issue that Camaro owners bring up to our Dealers is the amount of body lean and roll. They don't come in and complain about understeer. They don't like the amount of lean and roll. The front lean and roll can be reduced with a larger front bar. Simple fix.

The second issue is the rear end feels loose and may or may not include a mention of wheel hop. The loose rear end is due to the OE rubber sub-frame bushes and the Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH) voids. Installing Pedders sub-frame inserts corrects that condition. Again it is straight forward.

There iss much to be learned from this thread. a 5th Gen Camaro is such a great car off the showroom floor it doesn't take truck loads of parts or lots of money to dial in a Camaro to make it better than new. It does take the RIGHT parts for the OWNER. If JP had asked for less understeer or wanted to hit some type of track the solution would be different.

Camaro owners will fall into several general groups.

Daily Drivers like JP
Aggressive Daily Drivers
Drag Racers
Autocross / Roadcourse Racers

Each group should be treated differently. Each person in each group should be treated individually and the solution adjusted to meet their individual needs.