Ethanol 15 approved by EPA

[My 5th]

Originally Posted by Sc0rPs

So you know what they gained? They no longer import oil!!! Next time do some real research.

That's because WE just "loaned" them billions of dollars to drill for OUR oil in the Gulf, because certain political types don't want to dirty our hands with that eeeevillll oil!

Besides, none of this eco crap is going to affect our Camaros. I bought the Camaro because it was built by union thugs. I plan on claiming the Union Thug Exemption if they ever try to force me to use that crap.

[JUISSD]

The current ethanol fuels are not corrosive to modern automobiles. You can run E85 if you want, you just have to be tuned for it. The problem with ethanol is it's a negative return energy source.

[KEEP RT]

Don't forget that alcohol built our muscle cars. By that I mean the NASCAR races were started by moonshiners who actually ran some of there "shine runs" on tanks full of nothing but "White Lightning" to avoid the police. Later they were the first to Modify their cars to out run the Cops. Then auto manufactures took notice and improved the cars. Then they staged races on bets which turned into NASCAR. Now auto makers still improve their cars on safety and performance on the racing circuits. (which many off-shoots of NASCAR were born). Leaving us all for the lust for HP and Torque. I've learned this from the History Channel.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by KEEP RT

Don't forget that alcohol built our muscle cars. By that I mean the NASCAR races were started by moonshiners who actually ran some of there "shine runs" on tanks full of nothing but "White Lightning" to avoid the police. Later they were the first to Modify their cars to out run the Cops. Then auto manufactures took notice and improved the cars. Then they staged races on bets which turned into NASCAR. Now auto makers still improve their cars on safety and performance on the racing circuits. (which many off-shoots of NASCAR were born). Leaving us all for the lust for HP and Torque. I've learned this from the History Channel.

That's all well and good ,but it really has nothing to do with this topic.

[KEEP RT]

Cars can run Very well on alcohol if designed to. I'm not saying all engines, but it's not the end of the fun. look at alcohol drags (not pure alcohol). You may have to mod but it's possible.

[Sc0rPs]

Originally Posted by motorhead

That's all well and good ,but it really has nothing to do with this topic.

That and I thought we're in Pony cars?

[gblaue]

For all us old timers, didn't we have this same discussion back in the 70's when they stopped producing leaded gasoline?

[slacker]

Originally Posted by gblaue

For all us old timers, didn't we have this same discussion back in the 70's when they stopped producing leaded gasoline?

Yes, and it took 15 years for car makers to bring real performance back to the showroom. Someone asked if 10% ethanol gas was being forced on anyone, anywhere. Thats all we can buy in the Houston area.

[Seca Turbo]

Now that we have politically beat it to death.

Are there any TUNERS out there with performance ideas that can program and advantage into this new blend

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by slacker

Yes, and it took 15 years for car makers to bring real performance back to the showroom. Someone asked if 10% ethanol gas was being forced on anyone, anywhere. Thats all we can buy in the Houston area.

I haven't seen ethanol free gas in years in Miami. It is cheaper (due to subsidies-better known as MY money) and requires more fill-ups, why would the gas stations put anything else in their tanks? So yes, it has been forced on us, just like they will force e15 on us.

[alrox]

Originally Posted by gblaue

For all us old timers, didn't we have this same discussion back in the 70's when they stopped producing leaded gasoline?

This is different. They can not stop producing ethanol free gasoline, it's what our cars will always run on.

Leaded gasoline was inferior to unleaded and was dropped. Unleaded gasoline has the highest energy content of any easily accessible fuel and is the cheapest. This is why we use it by billions of gallons per year.

On a side note, American vanity will never suffer at the hands of the long recharge time of hybrids, making them unsuitable to replace gasoline powered cars.

American waste, however, is abundant. This is why we subsidize growing corn to turn into an inefficient low energy fuel.

[jonm38]

This E15 will KILL any Classic car and truck if they do use this E15.

This is from a email I recieved the other day a part of SEMA Action Network.

Original Action Alert: http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62807


URGENT REGULATORY ALERT
EPA Threatens to Raise Ethanol Content in Gasoline
Under pressure from ethanol producers to raise the ethanol content in gasoline, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) could issue a decision later this month allowing the use of E15 in late-model cars. It could permit the use in other cars at a later date. The SEMA Action Network (SAN) opposes the shift from E10 to E15 due to concerns that the additional content will harm automobiles of all ages, including special interest collector and historic vehicles. To date, there is a lack of conclusive information regarding E15’s effect on engines of different model years. In addition to the potential harm of E15 on engine components, the EPA has no procedure in place to ensure misfueling does not occur or any plan for ensuring regular gasoline continues to be available for older vehicles. The SAN’s concerns are shared by a number of other industry organizations.

We Urge You to Ask President Obama (Contact Information Below) to Stop the EPA from Raising the Ethanol Content in Gasoline

Dear Mr. President:

I strongly urge you to stop the Environmental Protection Agency from raising the amount of ethanol in gasoline from today’s 10 percent (E10) to 15 percent (E15) – a 50 percent increase.

The EPA is under pressure from some corporate ethanol supporters to raise the rates in order to boost sales. However, scientific studies have not yet been completed on concerns that the added content could harm auto parts of all ages.


When ethanol levels are raised, engines react differently and in a potentially dangerous way. Ethanol causes engines to burn hotter which could lead to premature engine and equipment failure. For newer cars, the “check engine” light may appear unnecessarily or too late to avoid costly repairs.


Ethanol also increases water formation in the fuel system, especially when the vehicle sits over a period of time. Under these conditions, formic acid is created which corrodes metals, plastics and rubber. This can lead to engine/parts failures and, potentially, safety hazards.


If the EPA approves E15, it will state that the increased ethanol is only for recent model cars. However, once a new fuel mix enters the gasoline supply system, it will inevitably end up in the wrong engines.


Gasoline without any ethanol may simply disappear from the marketplace for millions of Americans with older cars or special interest collector and historic vehicles. E10 has already made this a reality in many areas of the country.


The EPA should wait until all of the scientific research is complete. There is no need for a rush to judgment.
DON’T DELAY! Please contact President Obama at http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Please e-mail a copy of your letter to Steve McDonald at stevem@sema.org. Thank you for your assistance.

[Tom]

jonm38... thank you for the facts.

We don't need 15% ETHANOL....period!

[hot_rod]

Originally Posted by Tom

jonm38... thank you for the facts.

We don't need 15% ETHANOL....period!

Ditto !!!