Prediction: Reviewers will spec the ZL1 close to the GT500 but not "better" than

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by thePill

Here is a budget supercar shootout from Motor Trend between the GT500 SVT, the Z06 Carbon and the GT-R. Its 20 minutes long but pretty entertaining...

Before you watch, the GT-R destroys the GT500 and whoops the Z06.

LOVE the way the z06 sounds in the 1/4 mile!!

[rez333]

Originally Posted by DevilKnightFalcon

If you are talking about track times you realize that you are comparing a car with absolutely ancient suspension against a car that is cutting edge and top of the line in every way. The ZL1 will beat the GT500 and then Ford will tweak it to try and make it better and the battle will go on.

You're wrong. There are different grades of Magnetic Ride. The performance version used in Ferraris cost $6000. The ZL1 does not have that version.

Furthermore, Magnetic Ride offers no performance advantage over a regular performance tuned suspension unless the track happens to be exceedingly bumpy, and in fact will be worse because it's heavier.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by rez333

You're wrong. There are different grades of Magnetic Ride. The performance version used in Ferraris cost $6000. The ZL1 does not have that version.

Furthermore, Magnetic Ride offers no performance advantage over a regular performance tuned suspension unless the track happens to be exceedingly bumpy, and in fact will be worse because it's heavier.

How do you know? It uses the NEXT GENERATION MR - above what ZR1 and CTS-V currently run.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by rez333

You're wrong. There are different grades of Magnetic Ride. The performance version used in Ferraris cost $6000. The ZL1 does not have that version.

Furthermore, Magnetic Ride offers no performance advantage over a regular performance tuned suspension unless the track happens to be exceedingly bumpy, and in fact will be worse because it's heavier.

AND - I remember reading Ferrari traded the MR shocks from GM for the 15.5" Enzo rotors GM uses on ZR1.

[rez333]

My point is that the stiffest setting of MR is the same as performance shock settings - there's no performance advantage.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by rez333

My point is that the stiffest setting of MR is the same as performance shock settings - there's no performance advantage.

But the performance shock isn't going to adjust as accutely like the MRs will. Besides - we don't even know information about this generation of shocks. You have no better idea than I unless you work on the CAMARO Team. Quit putting down and deminishing what you don't know. All it's doing is causing strife. If you have docmentation to support your comments, please provide them.

[ffrcobra_65]

lots of speculation.

So GM used a current day GT500 as their performance benchmark and the ZL1may and should better it. So what happens when there is a new GT500 vs. the current day ZL1? A very sad bowtie? This war always comes to a full blue (oval) circle, where Ford Mustang comes out on top. Always been, always will. I like and own both cars. I am just not biased to one or the other.
BTW, the ancient rear that Ford insists on using...well, it seems to work and beats the Camaros, 911s and M3s of the world...not too shabby IMO.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

lots of speculation.

So GM used a current day GT500 as their performance benchmark and the ZL1may and should better it. So what happens when there is a new GT500 vs. the current day ZL1? A very sad bowtie? This war always comes to a full blue (oval) circle, where Ford Mustang comes out on top. Always been, always will. I like and own both cars. I am just not biased to one or the other.
BTW, the ancient rear that Ford insists on using...well, it seems to work and beats the Camaros, 911s and M3s of the world...not too shabby IMO.

It works until there are irregularities shake it off course. Don't get me wrong - Ford's tuned that baby well. Is there more than one track they've compared that car on besides Laguna?

[rez333]

Originally Posted by thePill

Here is a budget supercar shootout from Motor Trend between the GT500 SVT, the Z06 Carbon and the GT-R. Its 20 minutes long but pretty entertaining...

Before you watch, the GT-R destroys the GT500 and whoops the Z06.

awesome video - it's always great to have 3 cars tested by the same person on the same day. It's hard to compare when they're by different people on different days like the lightning lap results from C&D.

Does the Z06 and GT-R in the video have Magnetic Ride?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by rez333

awesome video - it's always great to have 3 cars tested by the same person on the same day. It's hard to compare when they're by different people on different days like the lightning lap results from C&D.

Does the Z06 and GT-R in the video have Magnetic Ride?

Z06 had the Carbon package which has the MR shocks. I don't recall Godzilla though.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by radz28

There's only so much one can do with that telephone pole of a rear end...

Depends on what you want to do with the car. It is nice to do a blower swap to 700+Rwhp and not have to replace the rear end. No worries, the ZL1 may never see those HP levels......

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Sleestack

Depends on what you want to do with the car. It is nice to do a blower swap to 700+Rwhp and not have to replace the rear end. No worries, the ZL1 may never see those HP levels......

Touche I hope that new iron diff' will hold together, because that pole you guys have is STOUT!!!

[thePill]

I have grown up and somewhat matured along side the Solid Rear Axle, I own a 5.0 now and I can tell you there are some disadvantages. However, most of those disadvantages are invisible because most of the time I do not operate my car over 50% of it's potential on public roads. I have pushed the car hard, over some uneven pavement and found that it fits it name well... It feels solid, but mostly because of the stiff spring rate not because the wheels do not operate independently. I have a 320i that uses IRS and it also has a similar spring rate... Over uneven pavement, they are both very bumpy. There is a German man that works at an Esso gas station close by, he doesn't look like much but he can tell me everything about my car. He owns a Z3 with the M package and has an aggressive spring rate and can attest that "Vonse za spring rate become steef, za ride quality decrease... no matter vat suspension you chose"

In my experience, the SRA has three distinct disadvantages. Lateral axle push, unsprung weight and simultaneous rear wheel reaction during bumps.

Lateral axle push happens under hard cornering, most people have grown fond of the Solid rear axles ability to rotate (or drift) mid-turn. When one rear wheel (outside) absorbs a majority of the force and weight accustomed during cornering, it applies force to the inside wheel as well. Drag racers could care less about this term but road racers that want to use a SRA will commonly use a pan hard bar, or in more extreme cases a Watts link. This "Panhard" absorbs the lateral push so the inside wheel stays on track.. This sort of band aid will test the tires and those tires usually fail...

Unsprung weight sucks, it causes wheel hop because a heavier suspension system works harder to rebound. Although you gain some unsprung weight over an IRS system (about 60lbs) you offset the total curb weight of your vehicle almost 3 times that amount (close to 150lbs). Unspring weight can be dealt with, Wheels being the most popular way of reducing that weight. Also, suspension, tires, brakes and sometimes just a new lightweight axle can very easily put you well into the green... expensive???? Yep....

The simultaneous rear wheel reaction is when one tire feels the bump, the other reacts to it too.. Kinda like the gay twins that served the Cobra commander in GI Joe cartoons... Can't remember their names.. but they were gay... and so is simultaneous rear wheel reaction. It makes each wheel a slave to each other. This would be bad it you were taking bumps that forced your axle beyond a 30% angle. This would mostly affect off road trucks which is why they use an IRS now... But this theory is always overlooked, If you were to take a bump mid turn, on either wheel (inside or out) wouldn't that apply more down-force to the unaffected wheel? Think of it as a see-saw, starting level.. move one side up and what does the other side do... it plants itself firmly into the ground... The unaffected wheel may still jar, but with a stiffer spring, it will bite when the other is taking the bump...

If you attend to these 3 disadvantages by reducing unsprung weight and investing in better hardware, it doesn't seem so bad in the end... especially when you buy suspension parts.. because my parts are 1/2 of what an IRS goes for.. and thats not counting labor if I can't do it myself...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by thePill

I think an educated guess based on the usage of the LSA and the TR6060 MG9 could get Ford pretty close.

As I said, Ford can guess just about as well as we can and probably make even more accurate predictions based on what they know about both cars.

Originally Posted by thePill

Ancient suspension or not, the GT500 was only 3 seconds behind the Z06 at Willow and cost half of what the Z06 does and weighs 600lbs more. I will stick with the Ancient suspension and use modern day springs as opposed to the Transverse leaf spring the Vette uses.

I know you know that 3 seconds a lap is an eternity. That's the difference in qualifying and putting your car back on the trailer.

There are significant advantages to the composite leaf spring used on the Corvette. Low mass and lower CG are big deals. The Corvette is lighter than almost any competitor and these are the details that make that happen. Don't poo poo it because it's what you've read.

MR shocks have several advantages, having two or more funamental tunings being one.

You have variable compression and rebound damping that is controlled thousands of times per second keeping the tire planted for optimal handling and traction. Additionally, like the ZR1, the MR shocks can be calibrated to know, for example, that the clutch is in and the engine is reving such that the car now assumes you are about to launch. The rear shocks compression damping is increased to provide "some" anti squat to provide improved traction and hence acceleration. It is more than a shock with two valve settings.