Now that the ZL1 is out, what do you want the Z28 to be?

[z28camaro2471]

We've already seen the Z/28. They just called it SSX to confuse us. Yes I believe that...seriously.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

As good as those engines may be, they are NOT "production-car ready/certified/validated". That process is no "overniter" in any form or fashion. One word alone makes 'em unlikely: Emissions. The LSA is (and now spoken for), the LS7 and LS9 are (for Corvette), and as improvements over the LS3, that's where the list ends...

There are a lot of interesting possibilities from GM PP, but they are "for off-road use only"...

That's one reason why I suggested my "Ideal Z28 engine" because all of the parts should be easy to get "certified" and could be production-car ready with minimum problems. Most all parts have already been validated, just not in this configuration. It should cost much less to build than a LS7, LSA, or a TT V6 and it should be a strong performer. I think it would fit well within the design parameters of a new Z28 and still hold true to the original concept.

Standard Production Line 4.125" Bore Block - Wet Sump

Standard Production Line LS7 Style Heads with LS3 Light Weight Valves - (No CNC or Ti Valves)

LS7 Intake, LS7 Cam & Lifters

LSA Forged 3.62" Crank, LSA Rods = 387 Cu. In. or 6.3L

ZL1 HD Drive train

[2cnd chance]

Maybe use the LSA sans the supercharger, but with a higher rev (due to better internals) and more torque and HP 450+.

[Hooperwp]

Originally Posted by rahz28

Z28 for me means:

1) 302 CU (or 350 for 70-up)
2) manual trans
3) GEARS! 3.73 standard, optional 4.10
4) twin stripes hood/trunk wrapping over the rear spoiler
5) badges, front grill, trunk panel, side fenders
6) NO ground effects.
7) nice compromise of 19 inch liteweight rims and tires that can be rotated front to rear.
8) MSRP about 33-35k

Rich

Rahz's equipment list is perfect. The recommendation for the lightweight 19" inch wheels is especially right on! A proper Z-28 concept should discard the bigger and heavy 20's currently on the current SS's. Chevy should also go forward with an open breathing 302 displacement engine, as a formidable competitor to the upcoming 2012 Boss 302.

[LOWDOWN]

Something "critical" is being overlooked in all of this: CO$T$.

The COPO Camaros of '69 were Dealer-driven: Yenko got the 9561 (L72-engined) deal going, in a much-simpler time. Harrell/Gibb were the catalyst for the 9560 (ZL1-engined) version. Both commited to buying "X" cars so equipped, a number that GM-Piggins assigned and/or agreed to. GM didn't have to crash-test those cars. The engines/driveline were already validated; NO expensive/time-consuming/engineering-intensive issues to deal with. SIMPLE.

Check your calendar: this ain't '69...

NOW, any deviation from those parameters already "tested"...ANY...require very intensive and extensive "testing"...which CO$T$... Change a pushrod, or an intake, or a rod, or a piston, or...gotta be "validated"...which CO$T$...

RPO "standards" are different than something from the Parts Department.

So, to bring a "Z/28" to market, quickly in a timely fashion at a "sensible" price, means it's almost certainly gotta come from an "already RPO source"...i.e. the LSA engine in the ZL1.

If you're gonna build a 370-something without boost, use the LS3. $0 cost. Ready tomorrow...already "validated" and "certified" and "crash-tested".

If you want something MORE without boost, there's only ONE "on the shelf, ready-to-go" answer, crash-test aside: LS7...and it revs, and it's got more power (and therefore will deliver better power-to-weight) AND weighs no more (wet-sump'd) over the front wheels...and appreciably LESS weight than the LSA...

A '67 Zee weighed roughly 3100 lbs., or 25% less than a 1SS. An LS3 makes 426 hp...multiply THAT by 25% and you come up with 490 hp...and an LS7 easily makes 505 hp.

Take some weight out of the 1SS (ZL1 wheels/tires for instance), add a few handling upgrades (NOT MagneRide) and driveline improvements, and you have one very entertaining non-boosted, weight-conscious, sen$ibly priced "Z/28"...in showrooms WITH the $5-10,000 more expensive ZL1.

Forgetting the COPOs for a second, THE most expensive RPO '69 Camaro in the VOG was an L78/L89 SS396...which was a terror in a straightline but likely was run over on a road course by a Z/28...

With a "lite-SS", LS7, and some minor handling tweaks, the Camaro Team can do that again...RIGHT NOW!

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

So, to bring a "Z/28" to market, quickly in a timely fashion at a "sensible" price, means it's almost certainly gotta come from an "already RPO source"...i.e. the LSA engine in the ZL1.

My thought for a Z28 would be to give the SS the ZL1 magnetic ride suspension, wheels/tires, and 3.73 rear gears.
- X

[Dreamer2430]

Originally Posted by z28camaro2471

We've already seen the Z/28. They just called it SSX to confuse us. Yes I believe that...seriously.

My thoughts exactly. Although, I think they're still using the stock LS3 engine in the SSX. I wouldn't mind seeing that change to maybe a 416 cid LS3. I do want to see something that directly competes with the Boss, so keeping it NA would seem like the proper thing to do.

[Darkflow]

Originally Posted by Dreamer2430

My thoughts exactly. Although, I think they're still using the stock LS3 engine in the SSX. I wouldn't mind seeing that change to maybe a 416 cid LS3. I do want to see something that directly competes with the Boss, so keeping it NA would seem like the proper thing to do.

And ditch some weight, lighter wheels, lighter exhaust system, different seats in the car? heard the stockers are adding a good amount of weight as well. Give the option of backs seats or no backseats like Fords doing with there 2 Boss models. Still have to think about this though, will Ford's Boss still be around by the time a Z28 comes out? We dont know Fords plans with the Boss, could be hear for a few yrs and be gone but everything about it transferred over to the GT500.

[Z4me]

Originally Posted by steeleshark2

GM pretty much said there will be on the chat last night.

It would be nice to see the Z28 out again. If this happens in the next few years my ZL1 may have a little brother.

[14pilot]

Here we go...

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Having worked on the Corvette and Z06, that is one program to be envious of the cars weight. Seriously better than anything on the road for mass. For the Z06, we took out well over 100 lbs with the aluminum frame, carbon wheel house, carbon floor pan, caron fenders and all of that was offset by the LS7, dry sump oiling, giant wheels, tires and brakes.

But Hylton, would you really buy a car without air today? At least on a car you would drive regularly? I think some would, and also radio delete etc. but at that point you'd be looking at some pretty low volumes selling to the really hard core. Wait, oh, I forgot.............that's you.

Even the aftermarket hasn't spawned the car you are describing. All of them are pretty much "add a supercharger" and go from there, rather than strip stuff off and attack the chassis.

I think I just gave you a business idea.

I agree with everything you say here. I am a hardcore guy (especially when it comes to Z/28's and 1LE's). I guess I can always rip that stuff out but then why offer a ZL1 and a Z/28 if a Z is to be nothing more than a different engine from the ZL1?

Most folks posting here are generally running down the same road with what their vision of a Z is. As hideous as a Boss Mustang looks, they have some pretty cool features such as back seat delete and an optional "track tune" which gives the car lumpier idle and moves the powerband for track purposes.

[7CAMARO7]

Originally Posted by Hylton

why offer a ZL1 and a Z/28 if a Z is to be nothing more than a different engine from the ZL1?

Because that is the difference between the ZR1 & the Z06 Carbon/Ultimate performance edition.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by 7CAMARO7

Because that is the difference between the ZR1 & the Z06 Carbon/Ultimate performance edition.

Not exactly but I get what you are saying.

You know, if they punched out some lightweight sheetmetal as they did for the Cruze Eco, it could used for both the Z/28 and the 2LS. Just sayin' Number 3

[7CAMARO7]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Not exactly but I get what you are saying.

ok, besides the hood & fenders... what else? lets please not get into floormats btw