My Camaro went home to Oshawa to die......

[Camarowguy]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

might be a dumb question but i can not remember,is it recommend to change lifters with new cam ?

I would never use stock puffers with an aftermarket cam. That's asking for trouble. They barely hold up under the stock parameters. When you go with aftermarket lifters, make sure it has a snap ring at the top holding the plunger in. If it has a wire retainer that is square, stay away. I'm sure many people has used them and been fine....that's my opinion and I think it's necessary to use the snap ring type.

Sorry you had to go through this op. It's a hard lesson learned and a expensive one at that. I'm just wondering if the rods in these engines are weak. The pics I have seen lead me to believe that are not a durable rod. They sure don't look like they are anyway. Maybe there is some defects in some castings because it seems like somewhere around 10k miles is the magic number that they fail when run hard. Some odd and kind of crappy that gm would build a bad ass engine with a great flowing set if heads and intake system......capable of making insane amounts of power easily.....and throwing in some junk connecting rods. I just acquired another vehicle to drive daily. I'm right at 3k miles on mine. I'm tempted to either build a tough engine or pull this engine and put a good set of rods in this engine along with doing a few other things to it. After seeing these failures, I'm scared to step on mine. Kind of silly when you pay this much money for a performance car.

[2010victoryredss_ron]

well i hope you enjoyed yourself at the Nationals....but that does suck what happened..

[masterwinning]

Still makes me sick to read/ see the pictures. You did destroy that motor thou, probably one of the worst I have ever seen or heard about. If you are going to do it, at least do it right. Now we just have to figure out the real cause of the problem.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

I would never use stock puffers with an aftermarket cam. That's asking for trouble. They barely hold up under the stock parameters. When you go with aftermarket lifters, make sure it has a snap ring at the top holding the plunger in. If it has a wire retainer that is square, stay away. I'm sure many people has used them and been fine....that's my opinion and I think it's necessary to use the snap ring type.

Sorry you had to go through this op. It's a hard lesson learned and a expensive one at that. I'm just wondering if the rods in these engines are weak. The pics I have seen lead me to believe that are not a durable rod. They sure don't look like they are anyway. Maybe there is some defects in some castings because it seems like somewhere around 10k miles is the magic number that they fail when run hard. Some odd and kind of crappy that gm would build a bad ass engine with a great flowing set if heads and intake system......capable of making insane amounts of power easily.....and throwing in some junk connecting rods. I just acquired another vehicle to drive daily. I'm right at 3k miles on mine. I'm tempted to either build a tough engine or pull this engine and put a good set of rods in this engine along with doing a few other things to it. After seeing these failures, I'm scared to step on mine. Kind of silly when you pay this much money for a performance car.

I have to absolutely disagree.

You talk as if you already know what caused this failure. You don't. It could be as simple as the plastic timing chain tensioner failing.

[rally yellow ss rs]

Originally Posted by mikeSS

here the thing. you don't hear a lot about stock engines having failures maybe leaks and such. i think the problem is his cam setup+ shop. something there messed up.

i remember the last thread i was reading, was this guy put a small GM cam in without changing the valve train. and other thread was when this guy put a cam into his car, and the toke out the cam, and put the stock cam in then blew his engine with the stock cam. i have have heard people in the forced induction blowing engines.

i think people under estimate the level of expertise it takes to mod a engine like this. i even remember Ted at JRE in one thread said, to many shops these days do not dial in the cam right. ( something of those lines)

in the end, when modding a camaro, you need to get the best parts, and have the best in you area install them. you cannot go cheap on ANYTHING.

I think it is wise if one brings their camaro to a speed shop that will replace the 100k mile warranty. Isnt there some in Texas and Florida? I know you will need more funds at one time, as opposed to a mod here and there, but seems worth it to be able to hold someone accountable. These shops know you are voiding the factory warranty, and wont have your back. They are, for the most part, going to put in your car whatever you buy. Not the best, safest, and most durable setup. These cost money, and when you present a budget...they dont want any money walking away from their shop. Leave it to the professionals.

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Yes, those are the stock LS3 lifters.



Lifter is cocked to the side from blowing out the block I'm guessing. Won't know for sure till I get it torn down further.







It's a single bolt camshaft...here's another interesting nugget of info that may or may not have any impact on this. On the way up to Canada I hit a giant chunk of concrete in Michigan. Perhaps it caused a small oil leak that lead to this?

I'm sorry that your motor blew up. I got money on the culprit being the single bolt cam set up. I bet it sheared the little metal peg that keeps the cam sprocket from spinning on the cam. I have seen this before a few times and is the reason I will not install a single bolt cam in any car I work on. I swap them all to a 3 bolt sprocket.

Edit: Just looked at the pics and it looks like MasterZ is right about the lifter roller going out. You can see the cam lobe looks all chewed up. Can you take a pic of the bottom of the lifter?

[MasterZ]

this is exactly the reason I changed my lifters out to a set of Morel's before this trip. Just a few month ago a buddys car ( 2010 LS3) had a lifter let go. Luckly the car was all stock and covered by warranty. the roller went on the lifter and ate the cam and lifter up. Luckily there wasnt any other damage, they took care of his situation. So after more research we found a few others with lifter issues. So for some cheap insurance I pulled mine and upgraded them... good excuse to massage the heads while I was in there as well...lol

Looks to me like the lifter roller went out, which would have let the lifter drop out the hole more and on the lift side of the cam would jam it back into the block causing all that damage... what doesnt make sense is the bent valve and metal in the intake so I am still curious about this as well. Like PQ said I wouldnt rule out timing chain issues either. ..

the lack of oil theory, I think you would hear it way before a failure like that...

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by RubyCamaro

:( So sorry about this. I hope you will find a way to make it come out okay. Keep up posted.

I will...keep ya posted!

Originally Posted by rally yellow ss rs

It is unfortunate, but you sound like you had fun with it while it lasted. If GM had these cars putting out more stock HP and TQ, to counter its heavy weight, owners wouldnt mod as much. Maybe doing the mods just shortens the life with this car, and getting the LSX S/C combo...ZR1 setup...may be the best for longevity. Its a fact GM pumped these off of the assembly line, ecspecially the early models, and rushed with assembly. I too have a early 10 model, and bet I will have defects under 50k.

I agree 100% with all of this post!

Originally Posted by PQ

Check your timing belt tensioner. I bet it's broken. Skipped timing and the rest is the result. Poston hits tdc while piston is full open and the rest is obvious.

Was talking to GTAHVIT and it's a known issue. (known as in owners. Not GM)

Hard to say wether the tensioner breaks and creates the chain result or the chain result breaks the tensioner. But some tensioners have been found missing or broken without an engine failure.

Sooner or later I'll get to the front of the engine....stay tuned.

Originally Posted by Elykson

Well, I was right behind Mike when this happened and I don't think he was doing anything wrong. We both took off at the light to get ahead of traffic to merge, but he wasn't leaving me in the dust. He was just blowing it all out of his exhaust pipes onto my freshly cleaned vehicle. Haha.

Just let me know if I can do anything for you Mike (I'm not buying you an engine) I hope you enjoyed the other aspects of the trip.

Thanks for clearing that up Kyle!!!! I made the best out of the situation...we still had a good time!!

Originally Posted by PQ

At least an engine failure thread, could help to find any common problems and reasons for failure.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

This thread is bullshit! I wish it was never created. Sucks Mike :(

You and me both my brother.....

Originally Posted by mikeSS

here the thing. you don't hear a lot about stock engines having failures maybe leaks and such. i think the problem is his cam setup+ shop. something there messed up.

i remember the last thread i was reading, was this guy put a small GM cam in without changing the valve train. and other thread was when this guy put a cam into his car, and the toke out the cam, and put the stock cam in then blew his engine with the stock cam. i have have heard people in the forced induction blowing engines.

i think people under estimate the level of expertise it takes to mod a engine like this. i even remember Ted at JRE in one thread said, to many shops these days do not dial in the cam right. ( something of those lines)

in the end, when modding a camaro, you need to get the best parts, and have the best in you area install them. you cannot go cheap on ANYTHING.

The shop knows what they are doing......can't throw these guys under the bus till I'm done tearing into this thing.

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

I would never use stock puffers with an aftermarket cam. That's asking for trouble. They barely hold up under the stock parameters. When you go with aftermarket lifters, make sure it has a snap ring at the top holding the plunger in. If it has a wire retainer that is square, stay away. I'm sure many people has used them and been fine....that's my opinion and I think it's necessary to use the snap ring type.

Sorry you had to go through this op. It's a hard lesson learned and a expensive one at that. I'm just wondering if the rods in these engines are weak. The pics I have seen lead me to believe that are not a durable rod. They sure don't look like they are anyway. Maybe there is some defects in some castings because it seems like somewhere around 10k miles is the magic number that they fail when run hard. Some odd and kind of crappy that gm would build a bad ass engine with a great flowing set if heads and intake system......capable of making insane amounts of power easily.....and throwing in some junk connecting rods. I just acquired another vehicle to drive daily. I'm right at 3k miles on mine. I'm tempted to either build a tough engine or pull this engine and put a good set of rods in this engine along with doing a few other things to it. After seeing these failures, I'm scared to step on mine. Kind of silly when you pay this much money for a performance car.

I cringed all weekend as I watched people railing on their cars......and yes, it is very silly.

Originally Posted by 2010victoryredss_ron

well i hope you enjoyed yourself at the Nationals....but that does suck what happened..

Make the best outta what ya got!

Originally Posted by masterwinning

Still makes me sick to read/ see the pictures. You did destroy that motor thou, probably one of the worst I have ever seen or heard about. If you are going to do it, at least do it right. Now we just have to figure out the real cause of the problem.

I don't like to do anything half ass.....this included.

Originally Posted by PQ

I have to absolutely disagree.

You talk as if you already know what caused this failure. You don't. It could be as simple as the plastic timing chain tensioner failing.

This.....

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

I'm sorry that your motor blew up. I got money on the culprit being the single bolt cam set up. I bet it sheared the little metal peg that keeps the cam sprocket from spinning on the cam. I have seen this before a few times and is the reason I will not install a single bolt cam in any car I work on. I swap them all to a 3 bolt sprocket.

Edit: Just looked at the pics and it looks like MasterZ is right about the lifter roller going out. You can see the cam lobe looks all chewed up. Can you take a pic of the bottom of the lifter?

I'll grab a pic tomorrow......

[PQ]

I will cetainly stay tuned to this one. I may be camming this next week.

We'll learn from this but, again, I hate like hell this happened.

[Nvincent4708]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Once I get the driver's side head off...that's when the real fun will begin.

how ironic would it be if you had the same #3 cylinder fail like me...

[Nvincent4708]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

I would never use stock puffers with an aftermarket cam. That's asking for trouble. They barely hold up under the stock parameters. When you go with aftermarket lifters, make sure it has a snap ring at the top holding the plunger in. If it has a wire retainer that is square, stay away. I'm sure many people has used them and been fine....that's my opinion and I think it's necessary to use the snap ring type.

Sorry you had to go through this op. It's a hard lesson learned and a expensive one at that. I'm just wondering if the rods in these engines are weak. The pics I have seen lead me to believe that are not a durable rod. They sure don't look like they are anyway. Maybe there is some defects in some castings because it seems like somewhere around 10k miles is the magic number that they fail when run hard. Some odd and kind of crappy that gm would build a bad ass engine with a great flowing set if heads and intake system......capable of making insane amounts of power easily.....and throwing in some junk connecting rods. I just acquired another vehicle to drive daily. I'm right at 3k miles on mine. I'm tempted to either build a tough engine or pull this engine and put a good set of rods in this engine along with doing a few other things to it. After seeing these failures, I'm scared to step on mine. Kind of silly when you pay this much money for a performance car.

AGREE AGREE AGREE! Stupid retainers break...Em effers... lol

[camarohead]

Originally Posted by PQ

Check your timing belt tensioner. I bet it's broken. Skipped timing and the rest is the result. Poston hits tdc while piston is full open and the rest is obvious.

Was talking to GTAHVIT and it's a known issue. (known as in owners. Not GM)

Hard to say wether the tensioner breaks and creates the chain result or the chain result breaks the tensioner. But some tensioners have been found missing or broken without an engine failure.

i tell ya pq...you are really becoming very mechanically inclined..have read some post about the tensioners too..with everything that you have dealt with, your getting great knowledge doing it yourself..think their might be a new sponser soon...pq motorsports...lol...really though, been on this site a long time and see that you are really learning about these cars..

[Bonemaro]

subscribed

I have what i am told is a mild cam Comp cam LSA 114, 227/239, .613 .623
Dual valve springs, Titanium pushrods & retainers

No problems yet, and have driven her hard. Maybe my setup is tame enough, but this still draws concern. Sorry to see this happen.

[f5journal]

What are we looking at or supposed to be seeing with the rocker/valve spring pictures on page 2??