My Camaro went home to Oshawa to die......

[PQ]

Is it just me, or does it look as if the valves had been touching the piston heads for a few miles?

Obviously the metal in the intake was the shattered piston head but the others have the carbon wore away. Or is that just from the single incident?

[race29]

Originally Posted by PQ

Is it just me, or does it look as if the valves had been touching the piston heads for a few miles?

Obviously the metal in the intake was the shattered piston head but the others have the carbon wore away. Or is that just from the single incident?

Does look like it didn't suddenly happen.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by race29

Does look like it didn't suddenly happen.

Thinking about it now, it wouldn't make sense. If the timing was that far off, he'd have immediately knew it. It would have driven like pure shit.

[CajunCamaroChic]

Mike, when you walked into the BBOMG office at the hotel and that look on your face, we were heart broken. But you were a trooper for the rest of the weekend, sad face and all..........

[CamaroFemme]

Ugh, how did I not see this thread???

NOOOOOOOOO HUGGERRRRRRR!

*holds and rocks*

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by JETG

I would, after looking at the damage think that this is possible. But I also think it is possible that the lifter got loose and locked up the cam and in turn could have sheered off the cam sprocket peg also.

Sucks that this happened, but it is part of modding a car. Just come back and build it bigger than before...

Either way, the single bolt cam design is horrible. There is no way you would ever spin the sprocket on the cam with three bolts and a peg.

Originally Posted by PQ

So the valves all did in fact hit. Timing for sure. I'd hate for the tensioner to have been the problem. A simple little plastic peice causing all this damage.

The front cover coming off will finish the puzzle. BUT, we all know the chain of events, but they go in a circle too. We may never know where the initial failure was. The bolt could have sheered AFTER the failure from the solid lockup. Tensioner could have failed afterward too.

Be interesting to see the front.

The tensioner in these cars is not a big deal. Earlier LSx motors didn't have one and were fine. The only thing the do is keep the timing a tiny tiny bit more precise. You could take it off and the car would still run fine.

Originally Posted by PQ

Is it just me, or does it look as if the valves had been touching the piston heads for a few miles?

Obviously the metal in the intake was the shattered piston head but the others have the carbon wore away. Or is that just from the single incident?

The valves hit when the motor went boom. I have pulled motors where the valves were touching the pistons for a while and they barely had little half inch wide fingernail looking nicks in the piston. If you have a full circle valve mark on a piston like that your motor went boom.

[race29]

Originally Posted by PQ

Thinking about it now, it wouldn't make sense. If the timing was that far off, he'd have immediately knew it. It would have driven like pure shit.

look at the multiple marks on what looks like the remains of the piston and the scoring.... but yeah if the timing was way off it would have definitely been noticeable...it's just horrible no matter how you look at it.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

The tensioner in these cars is not a big deal. Earlier LSx motors didn't have one and were fine. The only thing the do is keep the timing a tiny tiny bit more precise. You could take it off and the car would still run fine.

I was under the impression that a boken tensioner and a lot of power could make the timing chain slip and timing to advance. If that slip were enough and it grabbed right afterward, it could have created this.

The valves hit when the motor went boom. I have pulled motors where the valves were touching the pistons for a while and they barely had little half inch wide fingernail looking nicks in the piston. If you have a full circle valve mark on a piston like that your motor went boom.

Ya, makes sense. Single bolt might be the most likely culprit. I don't see it as an oil issue.

[AnnaBear@SpartaChevy]

'Catastrophic Engine Failure' almost seems like an understatement when looking at these pics.

I am SO sorry this happened Mike!!

You did a great job keeping your chin up the rest of the weekend though.



BTW...thanks for the fries Thursday night.

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by PQ

I was under the impression that a boken tensioner and a lot of power could make the timing chain slip and timing to advance. If that slip were enough and it grabbed right afterward, it could have created this.

This is true on timing belts. We have timing chains and there is no way you could jump a tooth on our chains. I have seen a some installed a tooth or two off and a couple snap but that's it (saw someone install one that didn't know there was marks you had to line up, that was interesting hearing it start up). Our timing sets are very stout (the three bolt ones), no need for an after market unless you want to have adjustability.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

This is true on timing belts. We have timing chains and there is no way you could jump a tooth on our chains. I have seen a some installed a tooth or two off and a couple snap but that's it (saw someone install one that didn't know there was marks you had to line up, that was interesting hearing it start up). Our timing sets are very stout (the three bolt ones), no need for an after market unless you want to have adjustability.

Well, if there is no way for the chain to slip a tooth or two, then I'm going with the front bolt. Almost has to be at that point.....

[themossman]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

Where it goes from here....I'm not sure...GM will try and blame the cam/tune, but the car has run flawlessly for over a year...some pretty serious carnage for an 8900 mile LS3.

Some pics of the damage, and it's place of death and it's memorial.

Sorry to hear about this!

Originally Posted by TRR

Yes we do. He voided the warranty when he put a cam in & had it tuned. That's his mistake. It might not have been what failed, but GM could care less.
TRR

In a bad situation, you're making it worse. I get your point...but sometimes there's a time to keep your comments to yourself.
/chastising

Originally Posted by PQ

So the valves all did in fact hit. Timing for sure. I'd hate for the tensioner to have been the problem. A simple little plastic peice causing all this damage.

The front cover coming off will finish the puzzle. BUT, we all know the chain of events, but they go in a circle too. We may never know where the initial failure was. The bolt could have sheered AFTER the failure from the solid lockup. Tensioner could have failed afterward too.

Be interesting to see the front.

I'm REALLY interested in seeing the timing cover off...but it's going to be messy and hard to decipher....

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

The tensioner in these cars is not a big deal. Earlier LSx motors didn't have one and were fine. The only thing the do is keep the timing a tiny tiny bit more precise. You could take it off and the car would still run fine.

Luckily for me...my oil pump went bad. Why? because when I tore down the front to replace I also was taking the opportunity to replace the timing chain. When I went to remove the tensioner, I realized that it was broken and the metal piece that provides the tension was nowhere to be found. After hunting a bit...I found it in the bottom of my oil pan. I was lucky. My point here is that engine failures associated with timing gear have been a source of discussion for a long time...and allot of it centers around whether the tensioner broke first or the chain broke first. I was fortunate that that metal strap did not get caught up in and foul the timing chain when the crappy little tensioner broke.

So while I can see that the lack of a tensioner could be 'acceptable' and chain slap not significant enough to foul the timing gear...the act of the tensioner failing is potentially a whole different discussion.

I replaced the crappy LS3 tensioner with an LS2 dampner.


And...again...to the OP...sorry to hear about your issues and good luck!

[Russell James]

The cam dowel pin is probably going to look like the one in this thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...r+toast&page=2

[73camarolt]

Wow i am so sorry to hear this. I thought i saw your car cross the board on thursday. Me and my dad were in a group on the side of the road waving to everyone that came in. I was wondering why i didnt see your car in the show. Hope you get her all fixed up.