Modding does not kill motors.

[cab2g]

I've seen a couple of threads about bad lifters and rocker arms, there's the L99 lifter issue, then somebody posted a pic of their rocker arm that had a manufacturing defect and was hollow (google cache original thread was deleted for some reason)

so can one reasonably assume that if you buy upgraded lifters, forged pushrods, upgraded rocker arms, proper valve springs, etc you probably won't be vulnerable to the weaknesses of the stock components that were only meant to be used for one application?


I totally agree that these motors should be able to handle mods without power adders. GM has derived the LS9 and LSA from the LS3 engine, so the block should totally be fine. It may just be the valve train components that were designed (for cost effectiveness) not to support high HP/torque applications.

[DangerZL1]

There's and old adage, "The more power you make, the more parts you break". It's all a matter of statistics. When you get closer to the tolerance limits of the drivetrain you run a better chance of a mechanical failure. Also, the LS3 and L99 are mass produced engines. I wouldn't let a few failures deter the decision to mildly modify a car.

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by S-eatin-grin

My only regret thus far with modding is that I'm going to end up with a $65,000 dollar Camaro that no one will buy for more than $40,000 if I'm lucky....looks like I'm keeping her for a LONG time!

No one should expect any resale value on your car because of mods. If anything you can pull them off to sell them for 1/2 of what you paid and probably still get about the same for your car.

Originally Posted by HookemHorns

Great post SUX2BU -

If you have concerns about your engine blowing up, then don't touch it. If you can't afford to fix it if it does blow up, then don't touch it.

These are some simple rules to follow.

Very true, but a lot of people buy a car they can barely afford so I doubt they will have any more sense when it comes to modding their car.

Originally Posted by Moorepheus

While I agree that if a part is bad it is bad, and even grandma's car will fail with a bad part. However, if the parts in these motors are speced for the performance in which the car/engine was designed, changing the car's specs via a TUNE, CAM, or etc, these things could put these parts at risk of failure becuase now the performance of the car/engine is outside the acceptable threshold of these parts. We all know that cars will beak down, its designed too, otherwise we would still be drive the 1970 Camaro.

The big concern I have seen over the past year or so on these forums, is that I only see people who have MODDED their car with a TUNE, CAM, etc having major engine failure. In the same breath on these forums, I see is that the Camaro was built to be modded. Now, it might only be 1% of the Camaros that have been modded that we are seeing issues with, but these 1% of issues/failures don't show a good picture for the Camaro engine as an engine that can be modded, because they stand out like a sore thumb.

I have done nothing to my car, I am just not into it. Yet, I have had issues with my car, but nothing even close as to total engine failure. And, I don't think, I have yet to see anyone with a STOCK Camaro to have total engine failure like we have seen with the MODDED ones.

As for GM not helping the people who have modded, I would agree, they should at least stand by the part that is/was not affected by the modification or is known to be defective. But it seems that once you touch the engine, you are on your own.

I have been modding LSx motors for about 12 years and about 90% of catastrophic failures i have seen have been defective parts (whether they be stock parts or aftermarket). Stock parts can handle a lot more than most people think.

Originally Posted by Nvincent4708

Is this targeted at me? I mean i did have the bad lifter.. haha

Oh well, my car was resurrected..and going to be meaner than before

and it STILL won't stop me from modding.

Nah, this was directed at all the people that get scared of modding due to threads like yours.

Originally Posted by shockandawe

Yes,but Modding does kill Warranties!

You gotta pay to play.

Originally Posted by motorhead

So to me what the OP is saying is that our cars are more less junk from the factory and that modding them only made the problems show up sooner.

Nope, I still think the LSx motors are the best series of motors ever made. I wouldn't buy a high powered car without one of these motors. I have an ESV with a turboed LQ9 that has had a lifter failure. I fixed it and kept on trucking, racing is breaking.

Originally Posted by cab2g

I've seen a couple of threads about bad lifters and rocker arms, there's the L99 lifter issue, then somebody posted a pic of their rocker arm that had a manufacturing defect and was hollow (google cache original thread was deleted for some reason)

so can one reasonably assume that if you buy upgraded lifters, forged pushrods, upgraded rocker arms, proper valve springs, etc you probably won't be vulnerable to the weaknesses of the stock components that were only meant to be used for one application?


I totally agree that these motors should be able to handle mods without power adders. GM has derived the LS9 and LSA from the LS3 engine, so the block should totally be fine. It may just be the valve train components that were designed (for cost effectiveness) not to support high HP/torque applications.

I'm not a fan of hardened pushrods at all. I like the stock pushrods as a safety device. If something goes wrong and stuff hits I would rather bend a $1 stock pushrod than have to replace a valve. Yes, replacing the lifters and rockers would save you from this type of engine failure, but I'm not doing it. I honestly don't think there is a huge rash of bad parts out there, people just obviously pay attention to the broken parts threads more.

Originally Posted by DangerouSS

There's and old adage, "The more power you make, the more parts you break". It's all a matter of statistics. When you get closer to the tolerance limits of the drivetrain you run a better chance of a mechanical failure. Also, the LS3 and L99 are mass produced engines. I wouldn't let a few failures deter the decision to mildly modify a car.

Amen! Racing is breaking.

[Jcobra]

I came from the dark side, 2 cobras and a GT500. A lot of the failures with mustangs were attributed to a bad tune/tuner. I was lucky none of mine had issues after modding. It seems to me that GM is a lot stricter with warranties then Ford was, I really want to put LTs and a cam in my SS but I don't want to blow the warranty on a car that only has 1800 miles.

[Pentatonic]

It seems to me these engines have either a weak valvetrain or a lot of bad quality parts got past whatever quality control procedures are in place at the engine assembly area.

In EITHER case, these engines seem to be failing a lot more than what I remember compared to the 4th gens. There were a ton of heads and cam cars out there and I don't remember seeing all these failures.

So, due to this, I don't think a tune is worth the warranty loss. It's too much of a high risk for a moderate increase in power.

I'm watching these threads very closely to try and pick out where the common root causes are. This is so that when I mod my car and void the warranty, I know exactly what weak or likely-to-be-defective parts I need to replace.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by SUX2BU

If a motor has a bad lifter, oil pump or other defect it will fail if your grandma owns it and only drives it on Sundays or if you own it and mod the hell out of it. Obviously if you mod it it will put more stress on the part and it may fail quicker but it will still fail in a stock car none the less. I would say that the majority of catastrophic engine failures in these relatively low mile motors are due to defective factory parts.....

Not really sure what the point of this post is, I'm just ranting and I'm not sleepy yet.

I agree in part...but it's shameful that GM is denying claims without ANY effort to diagnose a customer issue against know issues.

Originally Posted by Moorepheus

The big concern I have seen over the past year or so on these forums, is that I only see people who have MODDED their car with a TUNE, CAM, etc having major engine failure. .

My issue was an oil pump that had a TSB out on it...had GM diagnosed it appropriately and repaired it, you wouldn't have seen a post about it. I would venture to suggest that's why you're seeing more threads about failures on modded cars than non-modded cars.

[Jcobra]

Someone should start a pole on this topic.

[Lumix]

Originally Posted by shockandawe

Yes,but Modding does kill Warranties!

Modding kills warranties...running the piss out of it kills motors.

[rdblan2]

But if you're looking to spend say, < $3k for headers and a tune, and that defective lifter poops itself that was defective from the factory, you need to make sure you have the $$$ for a replacement engine since your warranty is long gone.

This isn't a risk I'm willing to take until the warranty is gone.

[CamaroFemme]

Originally Posted by themossman

I would venture to suggest that's why you're seeing more threads about failures on modded cars than non-modded cars.

My guess is twofold:

The percentage of people who mod on a car enthusiast site is going to be significantly higher than the average population. More modded cars = more modded cars breaking down and commented on, whether the mods affected the break or not.

Non-modded cars are more likely to have warranties, and people are less likely to comment on something breaking down if they don't have to pay to have it fixed.

[ffrcobra_65]

No??? Ok, install a wrong tune, take it to 6k RPM and let me know if what happens to the motor.

[CamaroFemme]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

No??? Ok, install a wrong tune, take it to 6k RPM and let me know if what happens to the motor.

I think the OP is speaking in a general sense, not saying, "There's no mod you could ever do that could ever hurt your motor."

[Jason7]

Originally Posted by Nvincent4708

Is this targeted at me? I mean i did have the bad lifter.. haha

Oh well, my car was resurrected..and going to be meaner than before

and it STILL won't stop me from modding.

Your the prime example with what TO do with the car. I say this because you were bummed from day one but in everyone of your posts each second got better, there was no dwelling and you learned a ton about both your motor and self. Keep up the hard work, and I'm sure this won't be your first motor in your life that let's go...

Way to always stay positive and show these guys what its all about to be a true enthusiast.!

Jason

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

No??? Ok, install a wrong tune, take it to 6k RPM and let me know if what happens to the motor.

Did you just read the title and not my first post?

Originally Posted by CamaroFemme

I think the OP is speaking in a general sense, not saying, "There's no mod you could ever do that could ever hurt your motor."

Exactly. You can install pretty much any part incorrectly and tear something up very easily.