Sat in Camaro today, some disappointment

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

to me when i buy a muscle car ....interior is low on the list....muscle cars are notorious for giving you the best performance for a bargain while leaving the interior cheap. that is why i dont care about the interior.

I still think the BORING challenger interior is better because of the material used...boring can be changed quickly but comfort cannot.

I will be going to the show saturday and will report back.

I'm going to go to the show the show as well on Saturday. Might see you there at the Camaro area..lol..

[kevin2323]

lol let me know what you will be wearing and ill look out for you




no homo...lol

[djsnoflake]

IMO, offer a 3rd luxury interior package if you want, I suppose. If enough people would order it to make it profitable.

But keep in mind that when a car like this is at this price point with the power and handling it will have, something is going to take a back seat.
I think that GM was trying to capture the nostalgia factor of this car, and trying to live up to it's nameplate. When you think Camaro you don't think, "Man was that dash cluster nice with aluminum and a soft fabric touch." You think, "Man I remember driving my (My buddies'/ riding in my dad's) Camaro way back when (2 years ago/yesterday)
and how awesome it was to feel that power push you back in the seat."

If you compare a car like the mustang GT to the Camaro, the Mustang better have a nice interior to make up for the fact that it is gonna get blown away by an SS.
If you compare it to something like a 370Z, well let me give you an example: (Keep in mind I live in Canada, so my prices are higher than you lucky Americans) My 2SS RS M6 (No other options) came out to $49,118 taxes in. A similarly equipped 370Z (I didn't select the Navi pkg, cause the Camaro does not have it so thats not a fair comparison) comes out to be $56,322 taxes in. That's a difference of $7204. You are most definately paying a nice interior premium on that vehicle.

[fastball]

I think these are legit gripes. What people seem to overlook with GM cutting costs here, there, and everywhere, is what are they doing to improve product? It's fine and dandy that GM is making massive cuts where they need to..... problem is, you also need to spend SOME money somewhere. And every car in the Camaro's class (that would be the LS and LT, not the SS) has soft touch plastics, better visor mirrors with lights, and the wire loom in the trunk is tucked away out of sight.

I know people are going to flame me for saying this, but I agree that while the Camaro is great, it's not perfect. And right now, GM needs to execute product to perfection. They don't need to sell cars to those who bleed Camaro - they need to sell Camaros to people who would otherwise buy an Accord V6 coupe, Altima V6 coupe, 128i, or Solara V6 coupe..... trust me, those are GM's main competition to the Camaro. NOT the SRT or Mustang GT.

I've said this on numerous threads here - for GM to be successfull from here on out, they must sweat details like never before and think about the broad global competition. The new Camaro is great for us who dreamed of Camaros since we were kids - they MUST sell them to people who were brought up on Hondas and Toyotas as kids.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by StarkyLuv

IMO, the gas cap SHOULD be on the opposite site of the car. Who wants to judge how close they are to the tank and worry about opening the door and hitting something?

Having it on the other say saves that bother.

If you are concerned with that perhaps you should improve your driving skills.... not trying to be a jerk, but really, is it that hard?

Gas caps belong on the driver's side no matter which country you drive in.

[djsnoflake]

Originally Posted by fastball

I know people are going to flame me for saying this, but I agree that while the Camaro is great, it's not perfect. And right now, GM needs to execute product to perfection.

I would beg to differ, that at this price point with this performance, the car IS perfect.

See my above post about a 370 costing an extra 7 grand.

EDIT: I don't know if that comes off as an attack, but it is not meant to be. I am just showing my opinion on this discussion.

EDIT #2: My gas filler is on the passenger side and I like it because when I fill up for gas, I put on my hazard lights and take a walk around the car to stretch my legs and check and make sure all my signal lights are working and my tires look ok, so I will be on that side of the car anyways.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

perhaps--

Let me ask you this-- what would you rather have-- an independent rear suspension and more standard features -- or a 'soft touch' I.P.?

(keeping in mind that the base car must be affordable.....)

As to the lights in the vanity mirror? There's this thing called "head impact' standards ...our enthusiasts made it very clear that the new Camaro MUST look like the concept-- it does - and because of that, there ARE trade-offs.

I'm sorry that 100 % of the public does not love this car - but I'll take the huge percentage that does!

In today's global competition, it is imparitive that you have ALL of that, without increasing the price. Why? Because HONDA and TOYOTA can do it and not loose as much money as GM is loosing (4 months ago I would have stated it such that they still make money).

Explain to me why their interiors can have such a high quality, soft touch materials, and vault like solidity when you shut the doors even on a $17k Civic, and you never hear their engineers talk about heated arguements in staff meetings over a $.05 switch.

Not trying to be a jerk here Scott, but perhaps that's a contributing reason why GM is in the shape they are in right now.

[joepitt]

Originally Posted by DDustiNN

The passenger seat thing does concern me though, albeit only slightly. What does this 2-step process involve? I'm curious. I do think it's funny (but sometimes kind of annoying) when people can't figure out how to get out of my back seat though,

They don't really expect you to use the back seats, except to hold your briefcase.

[joepitt]

Originally Posted by nester7929

Having the cap on the right will take getting used to, but it'll be better once we are. No more watching out for concrete posts when opening doors to fill up.

As for the mirror light...well, I know I look good at all times. No need for it.

I see the advantage, however my other GM car has it on the left and I can see myself pulling up to the pump on the wrong side in each car, depending on which one I filled up last .

I wonder if this is a holdover from the platform originally being designed in Australia, where they drive on the other side of the road?

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by fastball

In today's global competition, it is imparitive that you have ALL of that, without increasing the price. Why? Because HONDA and TOYOTA can do it and not loose as much money as GM is loosing (4 months ago I would have stated it such that they still make money).

Explain to me why their interiors can have such a high quality, soft touch materials, and vault like solidity when you shut the doors even on a $17k Civic, and you never hear their engineers talk about heated arguements in staff meetings over a $.05 switch.

Not trying to be a jerk here Scott, but perhaps that's a contributing reason why GM is in the shape they are in right now.

because it isnt a performance vehicle...the interior makes up for it being an accord lol

[Number 3]

All valid points and if what you don't like is enough for you not to buy, fine. But you haven't driven the car yet. So you can't yet comprehend the tradeoffs that are part of any program as Fbodfather outlined.

Not many have seen the 2LT/2SS interior either.

You have a Chassis and Powertrain that you won't believe. It will wow and surprise you. But there are people that don't buy cars for that and maybe you are one of those.

NVH is outstanding. Driving the 1LT is nearly as quiet and equally comfortable and solid as a CTS.

Styling. I have yet to have any of the hundreds of people I've shown the car to comment about any of the things you've mentioned. The are flat blown away by this car.

Respect your thoughts and I share some of them. But drive the car!!!!!!!!!! Then you will understand.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

All valid points and if what you don't like is enough for you not to buy, fine. But you haven't driven the car yet. So you can't yet comprehend the tradeoffs that are part of any program as Fbodfather outlined.

Not many have seen the 2LT/2SS interior either.

You have a Chassis and Powertrain that you won't believe. It will wow and surprise you. But there are people that don't buy cars for that and maybe you are one of those.

NVH is outstanding. Driving the 1LT is nearly as quiet and equally comfortable and solid as a CTS.

Styling. I have yet to have any of the hundreds of people I've shown the car to comment about any of the things you've mentioned. The are flat blown away by this car.

Respect your thoughts and I share some of them. But drive the car!!!!!!!!!! Then you understand.

I understand what you are saying, and belive me, I will be buying one so I'm not being hypocritical.....

What I am saying is that EVERY car GM builds should not have a single compromise. And if costs can't be kept down, perhaps it's a good thing for GM to go ch. 11 to get their costs in line with competitors which would otherwise be impossible with union contracts and such.

If costs were in line with competitors, I firmly believe you could have developed the Camaro at the same or LESS R&D funding than you did, and at the same time have the superior chasis it has, the syling, everything the car has already, but with greater attention to detail (better visors with lights, softer IP plastic, easy entry configurations for both seats, tucked away the wire loom for the trunk lid, and other small details) and still kept the sticker price where it is..... and the company make money..... all at the same time.

It is very apparent GM's cost structure is still far out of line with competitors.

[fireresq157]

The flip down mirrors are tiny anyhow they are that way because the hot rod like top of the car. If they made them bigger you could not have them down and drive. The dome lights should be suficient anyhow. I liked the interior for the price it's probably just about right, people want cadillac interiors but the don't want the weight and the price. As far as the black cord I'm ok with it's nothing some zip ties could not hide better.

[classicrockr]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Cost and weight.

Some type of lever that would allow the front seat to collapse forward AND slide forward at the same time could not possibly cost that much.... although if it had to somehow override the power motor on the seat, then yes it may cost a LITTLE extra to R&D.

Weight - some type of lever set up would add virtually no weight - sorry but this one I don't agree with.


My opinion - as you go higher in model, so should the quality & fine tuned detail of the interior....