ZL1 and the next GT 500

[SSNIGHTMARE]

Do you think Ford will wait to release the specs/educated guess rumors on the the 2013/2014 GT500 until till the ZL1 is in production and it's too late to change anything, or some time shortly after the final ZL1 specs are released to try to steal sales away?

[tooslow]

Does it matter? Both camps know what they are able/willing to bring to the table and next year they will leave it up to us, the consumer, to decide which one "wins" in the battle of sales supremacy. The way I see it, the Ford guys are going to buy the GT500 and the GM guys will take the ZL1. I doubt there will be a huge number jumping ship for the competition if the performance gap bwtwee the two is as close as I think it is going to be.

[slick rick]

Originally Posted by kaneda

Have they since then offered a better suspension? Nope.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140820

FE4 suspension enhances performance

The new FE4 suspension debuts as a performance improvement for the Camaro SS coupe in 2012, focusing on more refined handling.

“Our objective was to create a more precise sport suspension for the SS coupe, with greater road-holding capability,” said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer. ”We applied lessons learned from extensive track testing to better refine the suspension geometry for flatter cornering, a more neutral balance during hard turns, and minimized understeer at the limit.”

Elements of the FE4 package include:

Retuned front and rear dampers
New solid front (23 mm) and rear (24 mm) stabilizer bars
Twenty-inch aluminum wheels and P245/45R20 front/P275/40R20 rear tires (SS).

More than just new components, the new FE4 performance suspension incorporates learning from the ongoing development of the high-performance Camaro ZL1. In particular, the suspension geometry has been adjusted, including reshaped stabilizer bars that are repositioned outboard of the shock mounts. This results in more effective body control and more precise response in performance driving.

Have they made the tranny better? Nope.

Has Ford fixed their tranny? http://jalopnik.com/5792482/faulty-c...w-ford-mustang

Have the fixed the hideous interior? Nope.

They've updated parts of the interior for 2012. You may not like the interior but I'm sure there are people that do like it.

[Orbit Orange]

How about this from today?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...harged-v8.html

650 HP from a turbo 5.8 liter??? They appear to be throwing down the gauntlet.

[Shurenuff]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

How about this from today?

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...harged-v8.html

650 HP from a turbo 5.8 liter??? They appear to be throwing down the gauntlet.

I'll believe it when I see it, but

While I'm not a fan, I really respect what ford has done with the Mustang.

It sure sounds like the ZL1 is going to definitely have it's hands full with this new model.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by kaneda

tooslow, I think you're wrong. The reality is Chevy is really playing catch-up with the GT500. They have built the 2013 ZL1 to beat the 2011 GT500. By the time the Chevy finally hits showrooms, Ford will have news that will make the Chevy seem tame. Look for the next GT500 to have in the ballpark of 650bhp.

I think you are wrong. I think performance difference between the GT500 and the ZL1 when both go on-sale side-by-side will be be so small that you will find that tests one one day put The GM offering in 1st place in one comparsion and the GT500 in 1st in another. Will the GT500 bring more power with the 2013 model, likely, I agree, but simply having more peak power is not going to translate into drastically improved performance numbers between it and the 2012 PP edition. The ZL1 has more cubes to play with, makes more torque and has an auto option.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Does it matter? Both camps know what they are able/willing to bring to the table and next year they will leave it up to us, the consumer, to decide which one "wins" in the battle of sales supremacy. The way I see it, the Ford guys are going to buy the GT500 and the GM guys will take the ZL1. I doubt there will be a huge number jumping ship for the competition if the performance gap bwtwee the two is as close as I think it is going to be.

Post of the Day No philly will be in my garage until CAMARO is in there and it doesn't matter if it performs a little better. I completely agree with this post.

Originally Posted by slick rick

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140820





Has Ford fixed their tranny? http://jalopnik.com/5792482/faulty-c...w-ford-mustang



They've updated parts of the interior for 2012. You may not like the interior but I'm sure there are people that do like it.

Thank you for posting that and saving me some time. ZL1 is going to start production for MY '12, also. Of course Ford is going to fight back, and GM will respond. The statement about GM not making improvements is completely off base...

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

I'll believe it when I see it, but

While I'm not a fan, I really respect what ford has done with the Mustang.

It sure sounds like the ZL1 is going to definitely have it's hands full with this new model.

[JCL-2SS]

I really dont care if they put a 3000 HP jet engine, wings and a 8 slice toaster in the Mustang, I wouldnt buy one. Ive been a GM guy all my life, owned many Z28's and trans am's since my first car at 17. Im happy with my camaro.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by JCL-2SS

I really dont care if they put a 3000 HP jet engine, wings and a 8 slice toaster in the Mustang, I wouldnt buy one. Ive been a GM guy all my life, owned many Z28's and trans am's since my first car at 17. Im happy with my camaro.

I'd rather have a stripped pony car. I'd rather take the model without the 8-slice toaster.

[Orbit Orange]

Originally Posted by tooslow

I think you are wrong. I think performance difference between the GT500 and the ZL1 when both go on-sale side-by-side will be be so small that you will find that tests one one day put The GM offering in 1st place in one comparsion and the GT500 in 1st in another. Will the GT500 bring more power with the 2013 model, likely, I agree, but simply having more peak power is not going to translate into drastically improved performance numbers between it and the 2012 PP edition. The ZL1 has more cubes to play with, makes more torque and has an auto option.

It does have more cubes translating into higher possible torque and Ford will never sell me a GT500 because I'm an automatic guy.

BUT... Don't count out this possible turbo V8. You can always up the boost, usually on the cheap. And Ford's record with forged internals probably means this engine will be bulletproof as well.

[Z4me]

For me personally, HP is not the last word on why I'm buying my next car. If some one decides on the Mustang or a Charger and thier happy with thier purchase then hey its thier choice. There will always be the next
model which will have new items to offer be it have more HP or some new
sweet gadgets etc.

For me personally I first off like the looks of the Camaro call it styling, the charger is close but not as nice imo. The mustang well is just not in the same class as the first two. They really need to restyle the car to compete better.
The ZL1 with all the new tech being placed into will be a pretty modern car for the next few years or more. Another plus for me.
Lastly and perhaps the most importantly I ask myself if "my wife and I" are joy riding some weekend and were in a bad accident which car will give us
the best protection to survive the crash. Hands down it's the heavier and larger camaro that could make the differance if we walk away from that
accident. I'll take the protection over get to quarter mile run a tenth of a second faster.
BTW my family owns and have owned both mustangs and camaro's over the years.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

It does have more cubes translating into higher possible torque and Ford will never sell me a GT500 because I'm an automatic guy.

Well, that may be the biggest surprise with the 2013 GT500. Rumor has it they may offer it with a 6-speed auto option in addition to the suspected power bump.

Originally Posted by Z4me

For me personally, HP is not the last word on why I'm buying my next car. If some one decides on the Mustang or a Charger and thier happy with thier purchase then hey its thier choice. There will always be the next
model which will have new items to offer be it have more HP or some new
sweet gadgets etc.

For me personally I first off like the looks of the Camaro call it styling, the charger is close but not as nice imo. The mustang well is just not in the same class as the first two. They really need to restyle the car to compete better.
The ZL1 with all the new tech being placed into will be a pretty modern car for the next few years or more. Another plus for me.
Lastly and perhaps the most importantly I ask myself if "my wife and I" are joy riding some weekend and were in a bad accident which car will give us
the best protection to survive the crash. Hands down it's the heavier and larger camaro that could make the differance if we walk away from that
accident. I'll take the protection over get to quarter mile run a tenth of a second faster.
BTW my family owns and have owned both mustangs and camaro's over the years.

You'd be hard pressed to convince me that the Camaro offers any better passenger protection than the Mustang, but I get where you might feel a bigger car might be safer than a slighly smaller one. Any statistics/safety testing results to back up your assertion?

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by JCL-2SS

I really dont care if they put a 3000 HP jet engine, wings and a 8 slice toaster in the Mustang, I wouldnt buy one. Ive been a GM guy all my life, owned many Z28's and trans am's since my first car at 17. Im happy with my camaro.

....well now, that about sums it up thank you very much! Any questions???

[Orbit Orange]

Well, that may be the biggest surprise with the 2013 GT500. Rumor has it they may offer it with a 6-speed auto option in addition to the suspected power bump.

Wow, I would be shocked. Didn't know ford had an auto tranny that could take that kind of power and torque. Where have you heard the rumors?

If some one decides on the Mustang or a Charger and thier happy with thier purchase then hey its thier choice.

A good attitude to have, to each their own.