Kenne Bell vs Whipple

[G200 Pilot]

Originally Posted by Turbo99

Maybe he ment 125-140* above ambient isn't bad........lol


Good luck at the track, hope the chiller keeps them in check for you. I didn't see much power gain from the chiller but I wasn't getting nearly as hot as you are so maybe you will see some gain in ET and MPH from it.

We'll know for sure soon... I hope!!

[mikepage0007]

wanted to clear the air...... kb is a great daily driver supercharger, the iats will really not have any effect on normal to hard driving...its when you are wot thru 4 gears, and temps go north of 200f on 9lbs boost.. it becomes a issue.i can,t even consider forging and running boost up to 18 ....if i was not a track person, i would probably be perfectly fine with the iat issue..i know plenty of kb guys , some road race, most have never seen a track.. and some only go once a year. .so i understand for prob most 75% of owners it does not really matter..i have spoken to many behind the scenes and there not concerned as it is not a 1/4 car.its the 25% and probably the ones that live in drive in 90-100 degree heat and humidity..that this becomes a factor.. but seems to me other sc,s dealing with same track and ambient air are not having this issue..imo
i applaud matt and jim and adam.. for coming on and saying what they have to say...i,m not saying i agree with everything they say, but it would be easy to not post or comment and maybe thread dies..i believe they are listening , yet defending there product...thats understandable...kb for the camaro has only been out for approx 14 months, like everything else built sometimes you gotta tweak the product if theres an issue...adams logs are respectable, still not quite sure what the ambient temps were to achieve a 7kburnout and only hit 115 iat and then drop 24 degrees in less then a minute...at 91 iat...i actually have never logged my iats in florida winter of 50 degrees, so i will remind myself down the road..while i,m at it..i want everyone signed up for pony wars in valdosta in october...regina has busted butt..and we will have a blast...we have 80 + camaro,s and want to see 100...its posted in the upcoming events also regional section...bruce{ speedster will hopefully have the sst there as he committed to coming}..matt, or adam, gonna change out my fluids this weekend...i like purple ice...do you have a mixture table of what you like run in your i/c..did,nt feel like looking it up..thanks

[Matt@KB]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I can Assure you as stated several times My Posts were Purely Positive, I in NO Way Ever Talked Down your Products, I merely offered supporting data to what everyone else is seeing and I Privately emailed it to you to evaluate, you never responded to me, I picked up my phone it still works and has continually for the last 25 years, My email works also, I respond to close to 100 per day.

Ted, all we ever received was two data logs.

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I also Sell Vortech, Paxton, Edelbrock, Magnacharger, Procharger, Ford Racing, Jackson, and have sold Powerdyne, and many others that no longer exist, so I have no Agenda.

Since you aren’t a KB dealer, it’s difficult to make a profit on KB. You should have an agenda- promoting or recommending any kit except Kenne Bell. I understand and I don’t fault you for it.

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Where did you Read I offer a 4 in MAF pipe and expensive tune?

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I did say if you won't make One I will so I did make 2 one of them nearly a year ago and one last week for FREE.

Will? Did? I clearly stated several times that KB WILL NOT make a 4". So, I assume you will offer one. You said you will make one and did in the past. Do what you have to do with your 4".

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I agree a Honey Comb works but so does a 4 inch pipe, the 4 inch pipe Restores TCM torque calculations.

One more time- as you said- our 4.5" with Honeycomb works. We agree. There is no problem whatsoever with “TCM torque calculations” in our calibration. Probably something unique to your tune mods.

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

You openly admitted your not a tuner but don't need any input from Real Tuners.

“Admitted?” I never “admitted” KB is not a tuner. I said KB doesn’t do custom tunes. We leave this up to tuners like you.
We are most certainly capable of tuning our own 50 state legal and competition kits. It’s what we do- sometimes from scratch. Since 1990, we have calibrated GM, Ford, Chrysler, Jeep cars and trucks even Mazdas. And we tune R&D with headers, cold air kits, exhaust, throttle body, etc on the chassis and engine dynos. We simply do not offer these tunes. We sell kits with a calibration, ready to bolt on. If a customer adds headers, we recommend you.

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I am not mad or upset, and Really Don't much Care What you do, It is your loss not mine.

Your reading the same responses from Potential or Would have been customers as I am right?

Ted, I’m aware of all the responses (negative and positive) from this site and our E-mails, phones and installers. 90% is positive, sales are great. When KB has an issue, we respond and fix it. In this case, it is not and will not be your “4" fix”. We sent a Honeycomb to one of your customers today. If you want the tuning strategy I’ll send it too. I think we both want happy customers. We’ve just going about it in different ways, agree? Contrary to what you may think, I admire your efforts.
Perhaps you, Ken (our calibrator) and I could get together and talk. Give me a call.

Jim Bell

4.5" v 4.0" INLET PIPING

Perhaps this data will explain why I prefer the 4.5" pipe vs the 4" or 3.5"- and cool air vs hot air. PD superchargers kits are extremely sensitive to ANY inlet restriction. Our goal is to keep it as close to “0" restriction as possible at all HP levels. Here is the Camaro rear inlet Mammoth system. All components are flow tested individually and as an assembly during the R&D phase. The custom KB bench will flow 1200HP and can actually measure the CFM/boost/HP loss on the bench without a dyno. Years of testing has given us a data base to compute inlet tract HP loss.

Everyone knows what a stock Camaro inlet system looks like. It flows 964 CFM (see KB website Camaro superchargers) vs 1750 CFM ( 4.5" Mammoth production) and 1412 (4"). That’s +20%.

Note how length and the filter itself affect air flow. We test all GM, Ford and Dodge stock inlets, throttle bodies and manifolds. They were originally designed to be efficient at 125-650 less HP so are a restriction to the supercharger and make it less efficient.

Also, all our data is based on outside the engine bay cool air. Hot under-hood air not only contains less oxygen it’s volume is directly proportional to temperature. So this hot air, which occupies more space, does not flow as well through the inlet components or supercharger.

We occasionally test with the dyno room heated up to 180*. This does require leaving the room.

FILTERS & PIPES

4.5" (1750 CFM) vs 4" (1412 CFM) pipes are 33" long like Camaro Mammoth standard production kit.
Good filter design will increase flow.
33" LONG PIPES ONLY

4.5" (1609 CFM) vs 4" (1121CFM). Once the length is determined, the inlet opening must be optimized.
SHORT 3" PIPES

The 4.5" x 3" flows 1324 CFM vs the 4" x 3" 1064 CFM.
It illustrates how crucial the relationship between pipe size and length is. But 33" long pipes flow 1609 and 1121 respectively.

[shaner74]

I feel like I'm watching MSNBC.

[Turbo99]

I feel like KB just likes hearing themselves talk and they just keep talking circles until we get tired of pointing out the obvious and quit....lol

[GMRULZ]

Originally Posted by Turbo99

I feel like KB just likes hearing themselves talk and they just keep talking circles until we get tired of pointing out the obvious and quit....lol

I agree, I`m done. I guess they figure if they deny it enough times even they will believe it... I guess its hard being perfect and everything you make can never have any possibilty of improvement. Perfection from the first creation...kinda reminds me of God, he`s the only other entity I know who made it perfect the first time..

[Revolution]

I have to just throw a quick chime in here... I just got done working with Ken from Kenne Bell on a couple tweaks with some customer cars both with 2.9 Kb's out here in Vegas..( I am the tuner and Fabricator for Findlay customs as well as my own fab shop) and I now have first hand experience with the larger inlets and I have now finally gotten to get my hands dirty on a whipple, a maggie and now a Kenne bell. The tube supplied works just fine.. infact seeing the way the maf was responding with this setup versus the whipple I am really impressed with the time spent designing the larger inlet... I am in no way hanging on KB's product.. as Ken knows from talking to me in person I have run prochargers for years on everything and my usual weapon of choice is turbo. However.. be it who has the louder voice or the most posts.. I realize that there are guys on here that are really taking notice to what is said so they can purchase a product and make a decision.. I think at the end of the day you put them side by side and get them to the track and start kicking down some times.. then we can talk. Dyno's in my opinion are a tuning tool and should be used as such. The numbers made there are just for your fridge.

I would gladly put the M6 car up against any whipple or maggie here in town any day of the week and the only thing on that car is a axel back and the KB the car is strong and I am certain once the temperatures drop out here or we take it to a track at a lower altitude it will lay down some great numbers.

I have logs out the ying yang of this car being run though the paces and only seeing a top of 40-50 above ambient when at WOT repeadedly though 4 gears in the throttle every second then dropping back down to 20 above ambient when your off the pedal cruising mind you.. vegas being 110 that day it wasn't bad.

Thing is my piece with what I am trying to say.. Kenne Bell as a company may not have had responses that everyone liked from the way they stated things,okay, not everyone has to be happy but the facts are the facts. I have worked with several companies over the years with their "kits" even built kits for a couple companies that use my designs at this point, When you put the cards on the table twin screw vs twin screw I am seeing more potential and a better setup with the KB kit. The fact that they are not flooding the market like whipple means alot to me as a tuner and installer as well.

I really think this thread has gone on long enough though alot of great information has been put out and a few people have had their feelings hurt but in the end I think if you read every page and take it all with a grain of salt it does nothing but educate you.

[charged]

well said

Originally Posted by Revolution

I have to just throw a quick chime in here... I just got done working with Ken from Kenne Bell on a couple tweaks with some customer cars both with 2.9 Kb's out here in Vegas..( I am the tuner and Fabricator for Findlay customs as well as my own fab shop) and I now have first hand experience with the larger inlets and I have now finally gotten to get my hands dirty on a whipple, a maggie and now a Kenne bell. The tube supplied works just fine.. infact seeing the way the maf was responding with this setup versus the whipple I am really impressed with the time spent designing the larger inlet... I am in no way hanging on KB's product.. as Ken knows from talking to me in person I have run prochargers for years on everything and my usual weapon of choice is turbo. However.. be it who has the louder voice or the most posts.. I realize that there are guys on here that are really taking notice to what is said so they can purchase a product and make a decision.. I think at the end of the day you put them side by side and get them to the track and start kicking down some times.. then we can talk. Dyno's in my opinion are a tuning tool and should be used as such. The numbers made there are just for your fridge.

I would gladly put the M6 car up against any whipple or maggie here in town any day of the week and the only thing on that car is a axel back and the KB the car is strong and I am certain once the temperatures drop out here or we take it to a track at a lower altitude it will lay down some great numbers.

I have logs out the ying yang of this car being run though the paces and only seeing a top of 40-50 above ambient when at WOT repeadedly though 4 gears in the throttle every second then dropping back down to 20 above ambient when your off the pedal cruising mind you.. vegas being 110 that day it wasn't bad.

Thing is my piece with what I am trying to say.. Kenne Bell as a company may not have had responses that everyone liked from the way they stated things,okay, not everyone has to be happy but the facts are the facts. I have worked with several companies over the years with their "kits" even built kits for a couple companies that use my designs at this point, When you put the cards on the table twin screw vs twin screw I am seeing more potential and a better setup with the KB kit. The fact that they are not flooding the market like whipple means alot to me as a tuner and installer as well.

I really think this thread has gone on long enough though alot of great information has been put out and a few people have had their feelings hurt but in the end I think if you read every page and take it all with a grain of salt it does nothing but educate you.

[old motorhead]

Originally Posted by Revolution

The fact that they are not flooding the market like whipple means alot to me as a tuner and installer as well.

Interesting observations. Just wondering if you could elaborate on that particular statement. Are you saying that KB is choosing not to sell too many 'chargers? Or could the demand for the product be limiting the sales? Either way, why does it "mean a lot to you"?

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Revolution

I have to just throw a quick chime in here... I just got done working with Ken from Kenne Bell on a couple tweaks with some customer cars both with 2.9 Kb's out here in Vegas..( I am the tuner and Fabricator for Findlay customs as well as my own fab shop) and I now have first hand experience with the larger inlets and I have now finally gotten to get my hands dirty on a whipple, a maggie and now a Kenne bell. The tube supplied works just fine.. infact seeing the way the maf was responding with this setup versus the whipple I am really impressed with the time spent designing the larger inlet... I am in no way hanging on KB's product.. as Ken knows from talking to me in person I have run prochargers for years on everything and my usual weapon of choice is turbo. However.. be it who has the louder voice or the most posts.. I realize that there are guys on here that are really taking notice to what is said so they can purchase a product and make a decision.. I think at the end of the day you put them side by side and get them to the track and start kicking down some times.. then we can talk. Dyno's in my opinion are a tuning tool and should be used as such. The numbers made there are just for your fridge.

I would gladly put the M6 car up against any whipple or maggie here in town any day of the week and the only thing on that car is a axel back and the KB the car is strong and I am certain once the temperatures drop out here or we take it to a track at a lower altitude it will lay down some great numbers.

I have logs out the ying yang of this car being run though the paces and only seeing a top of 40-50 above ambient when at WOT repeadedly though 4 gears in the throttle every second then dropping back down to 20 above ambient when your off the pedal cruising mind you.. vegas being 110 that day it wasn't bad.

Thing is my piece with what I am trying to say.. Kenne Bell as a company may not have had responses that everyone liked from the way they stated things,okay, not everyone has to be happy but the facts are the facts. I have worked with several companies over the years with their "kits" even built kits for a couple companies that use my designs at this point, When you put the cards on the table twin screw vs twin screw I am seeing more potential and a better setup with the KB kit. The fact that they are not flooding the market like whipple means alot to me as a tuner and installer as well.

I really think this thread has gone on long enough though alot of great information has been put out and a few people have had their feelings hurt but in the end I think if you read every page and take it all with a grain of salt it does nothing but educate you.

Originally Posted by charged

well said

[Turbo99]

How can it be long enough? KB hasn't done anything to acknowledge any issues?

[Ryne @ CMS]

Originally Posted by Revolution

I have to just throw a quick chime in here... I just got done working with Ken from Kenne Bell on a couple tweaks with some customer cars both with 2.9 Kb's out here in Vegas..( I am the tuner and Fabricator for Findlay customs as well as my own fab shop) and I now have first hand experience with the larger inlets and I have now finally gotten to get my hands dirty on a whipple, a maggie and now a Kenne bell. The tube supplied works just fine.. infact seeing the way the maf was responding with this setup versus the whipple I am really impressed with the time spent designing the larger inlet... I am in no way hanging on KB's product.. as Ken knows from talking to me in person I have run prochargers for years on everything and my usual weapon of choice is turbo. However.. be it who has the louder voice or the most posts.. I realize that there are guys on here that are really taking notice to what is said so they can purchase a product and make a decision.. I think at the end of the day you put them side by side and get them to the track and start kicking down some times.. then we can talk. Dyno's in my opinion are a tuning tool and should be used as such. The numbers made there are just for your fridge.

I would gladly put the M6 car up against any whipple or maggie here in town any day of the week and the only thing on that car is a axel back and the KB the car is strong and I am certain once the temperatures drop out here or we take it to a track at a lower altitude it will lay down some great numbers.

I have logs out the ying yang of this car being run though the paces and only seeing a top of 40-50 above ambient when at WOT repeadedly though 4 gears in the throttle every second then dropping back down to 20 above ambient when your off the pedal cruising mind you.. vegas being 110 that day it wasn't bad.

Thing is my piece with what I am trying to say.. Kenne Bell as a company may not have had responses that everyone liked from the way they stated things,okay, not everyone has to be happy but the facts are the facts. I have worked with several companies over the years with their "kits" even built kits for a couple companies that use my designs at this point, When you put the cards on the table twin screw vs twin screw I am seeing more potential and a better setup with the KB kit. The fact that they are not flooding the market like whipple means alot to me as a tuner and installer as well.

I really think this thread has gone on long enough though alot of great information has been put out and a few people have had their feelings hurt but in the end I think if you read every page and take it all with a grain of salt it does nothing but educate you.

personally i have found i can tune around almost all the MAF housings (until i run out of maf table resolution) .... as far TCM torque mulitplications, that car all be tuned around as well, albeit very time consuming.... i have been doing this for a while on a6 vettes, and honestly the newer camaro calibrations are easier to work with for the most part... as far as the blowers go, i really like the Magnuson stuff for anything up to 750ish wheel.... the whipple kit is alright , tuned a few, had to relocate the IAT which i think was stupid, should have been provided in the kit in my opinion (maybe that is fixed)... 800 plus wheel i steer the customer into either a Procharger setup with a 12 rib or cog, or go turbo, i am not overly fawned of PD blowers that make 14+lbs at 2 k rpm.... dynamic compression is through the roof at 2k rpm.... i have done them , but it makes me nervous... this is all my personal opinions based on my experience, take it or leave it....

[94guy]

Originally Posted by mikepage0007

been a busy day here , as i knew it would,..am hoping to get some real time track runs in tomorrow at pbir...weather is killing me...kind of feel left out, i haven,t posted any logs..lol....weather permitting i will post tomorrow,s runs...maybe they will look good..?? seen stranger things lately..don,t have much to add...seems everythings been covered...for know

any track numbers?

[FindlayCustoms]

Motorhead.. I think what Revolution is trying to say is that with more blowers on the street, quality suffers. With more dealers on the street, profit for dealers suffers. If there has been any tune issues, Ken at KB has handled them right away. If it was a huge company, and not a small operation, we would not have been able to get the service that we need and require. Its easy to relate like this... Olive garden makes a good italian dinner, but if I want REAL italian, I go to the local mom and pop place.