Why are some headers so much more than others?

[Atorius]

I'm looking at going with Texas Speed's LTs, they look great, have the same if not better specs, and are half the price. I love the US, but I am not spending 500-600+ more for a name.

[blazzin1]

Originally Posted by Atorius

I'm looking at going with Texas Speed's LTs, they look great, have the same if not better specs, and are half the price. I love the US, but I am not spending 500-600+ more for a name.

Texas Speed has had great success with their newer T-304 Headers. That is the ONE brand of non-U.S. made headers that I would actually consider. Especially since they just announced that a 2" version should be available soon. I've heard fitment of their 1-7/8" is great!

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by axis

That arguement went away YEARS ago. Do you really think spending $38K on a car means you have to spend top dollar on a set of headers? This isn't the 80's when a 30k+ car was an expensive one. In todays market, the price of a decent, well equipped car is in the 30-40k range. I'm glad you're happy with your ARH's and i'm sure they work just fine, but I have a hard time believing that they can't make set of headers for a few hundred less. There are a few shops on this board that are making 304 SS headers in the $500 range and i'm not talking about the Ebay ones either. There's no way you can say that ARH and Kooks don't come at a premium because of the name on them. Extended R&D is BS as well. It's not like the Camaro uses a totally different engine that needs totally different pipes to work. It's an LS based engine that is very similar to the previous models that they've already R&D'd. You already know there's going to be a merge spike and you know the pipe sizes you're going to use. All you really need to do is mock up how you're going to run the pipes to clear everything. Is that really worth an extra $400+? As with most things in life, some do and some don't.

What argument?I was stating the facts,also as far as R&D do you think they just threw some pipe together and said yea that will work?They are the ones that did fitment test ext. to make them fit with out have to ding them up to fit.They did not copy other products.Im not referring to American made headers that cost less,just the ebay ones.

[IPS Brandon]

Originally Posted by Jagerday

What is the difference in 300-400$ headers and 1000$ headers. They are made of the same material and have the same dimensions. The only thing not specified is the wall thickness. Is this the difference?

The 300-400 dollar headers, have to be either shorties, or made of mild steel, they would not be stainless. Stay away from mild steel if possible in my opinion, especially if the car ever would see snow (salt), I don't care what coating is on them (normally nothing special), they are going to oxidize.

The 1000 dollar headers are going to be 304 stainless steel (usually), 1/2 thick flanges, quality bubble flange collectors (usually), better hardware (usually) ect.

The other difference is from a finance stand point, think about the R&D costs that are into the more expensive headers then the cheaper units, think about the process costs of the higher quality more expensive units. These costs are rolled into price to a certain degree, which is why you will hear the saying "you get what you pay for"

Was there a header you had in mind that you are having a hard time justifying the funds to purchase? If you would like to compare an contrast and explain your goal, this will enable you to find the best product with in your budget feasibility set and give you the best total utility.

Let me know if I can help further

Regards

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by MG

I think it is that way simply because people are willing to pay those prices.

A $1200 header is just nuts but so long as people are buying them I wouldn't expect the price to go down

too many people are not only willing to pay, but will defend the high prices on the parts -- so, people are all to willing to charge that much for it. It's not exclusive to headers either.

also, that argument of high cost = high quality is total garbage and proven wrong many times.

[WheelmanSS]

Originally Posted by axis

Extended R&D is BS as well. It's not like the Camaro uses a totally different engine that needs totally different pipes to work. It's an LS based engine that is very similar to the previous models that they've already R&D'd. You already know there's going to be a merge spike and you know the pipe sizes you're going to use. All you really need to do is mock up how you're going to run the pipes to clear everything. Is that really worth an extra $400+? As with most things in life, some do and some don't.

Ummmm really?

How about Kook's new stepped headers then? You're going to tell me no R&D there? You're going to tell me nothing in the world of headers has changed?

Yes, an LS motor is based on a current platform that has not changed much. So bolting headers to the heads has not changed much either. However, you make "mocking up how you're going to run pipes to clear everything" sound like drinking a glass of water. You need signifcant work to design a proper flow that creates proper exhaust dispel.

A lot of armchair engineer/mechanic talk in your post. I have installed the shit chinese headers for friends on a budget. They are garbage in the the terms of quality and fit. I will spend the extra money on "just a brand" without blinking an eye for better fit, results, and durability every time.

[Nvincent4708]

Differences:

-Quality
-Being American Made or Not
-Customer Service
-Material

And the list goes on.

I went "cheap" I guess..but i'm 110% satisfied so far

[Jagerday]

So what i'm hearing is...If i don't care if they are american made and "just a copy" of the american made headers actually made in china than the cheaper ones should accomplish the same. As stated before the materials and the specs are the same. I'm sure the install and fit may be a little better, but is that worth 600$? I am a R&D engineer at a worldwide company and our products get copied all the time. I see everyday how people pay for our name when they could get the same product somewhere else for much cheaper. As stated previously our warranty and customer service is superior but at the end of the day we are selling the same product. I love America and all but lets face it the Chinese and Mexicans have much lower labor cost which drive down the price of there products.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by mst504

You get what you pay for,

not always true. look at PQ and his wheels

Originally Posted by Gordo

Why buy a 38,000+ $ car to put a 300$ set cheap Chinese made copy of an American made header on it,I have ARH and I got what I paid for and am very very happy with them.Just because something looks the part doesn't mean it is.You pay for the R&D on the American made headers and you pay for a copy made in a sweat shop for the cheap ones.That's why they are so cheap.

Why waste money to get the same performance?

Originally Posted by MG

I think it is that way simply because people are willing to pay those prices.

thats part of it. but another part (as already stated) is that companies spend a good amount of time R&D'ing new parts for this car and others just copypasta

[axis]

Originally Posted by Gordo

What argument?I was stating the facts,also as far as R&D do you think they just threw some pipe together and said yea that will work?They are the ones that did fitment test ext. to make them fit with out have to ding them up to fit.They did not copy other products.Im not referring to American made headers that cost less,just the ebay ones.

The arguement of having a topend car and paying top dollar for parts. Do you really think a $38k Camaro is topend?

So you think that fabbing up a set of pipes to fit our car constitutes R&D? REALLY? You could loosely call it developement but the research on LS engines has long been paid for 1000X over.

You bought your ARH's because you liked them and the company. I can totally respect/understand that, but the OP asked why some headers are considerably cheaper than others. The plain and simple answer is, you're paying a premium to have a set of big two.

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by IPS Brandon

The 300-400 dollar headers, have to be either shorties, or made of mild steel, they would not be stainless.

You really need to be more informed.

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

too many people are not only willing to pay, but will defend the high prices on the parts -- so, people are all to willing to charge that much for it. It's not exclusive to headers either.

also, that argument of high cost = high quality is total garbage and proven wrong many times.

I pay bottom dollar for all my stuff. I have been in the LSx modding game long enough to know what is worth the $$$ and what isn't. If people have the money to burn and want to buy the highest priced parts, more power to them. I will put my savings towards more go fast parts.

Originally Posted by WheelmanSS

Ummmm really?

How about Kook's new stepped headers then? You're going to tell me no R&D there? You're going to tell me nothing in the world of headers has changed?

Yes, an LS motor is based on a current platform that has not changed much. So bolting headers to the heads has not changed much either. However, you make "mocking up how you're going to run pipes to clear everything" sound like drinking a glass of water. You need signifcant work to design a proper flow that creates proper exhaust dispel.

A lot of armchair engineer/mechanic talk in your post. I have installed the shit chinese headers for friends on a budget. They are garbage in the the terms of quality and fit. I will spend the extra money on "just a brand" without blinking an eye for better fit, results, and durability every time.

Stepped headers have been out for years. Don't know what cars you have installed headers on but I have installed hundreds of sets of headers on LSx motored cars. Fourth gen Camaros/Firebirds, fifth gen Camaros, Vettes, GM trucks, GTOs,, ect. If it has an LSx based motor I have probably installed headers on it. I have also installed pretty much EVERY brand out there. Guess what, while Kooks or other high dollar headers have a little better fit, but they aren't perfect and definitely not worth double the price. I speak from LOTS of experience, I am not trying to sell you anything.

[axis]

Originally Posted by WheelmanSS

Ummmm really?

How about Kook's new stepped headers then? You're going to tell me no R&D there? You're going to tell me nothing in the world of headers has changed?

Yes, an LS motor is based on a current platform that has not changed much. So bolting headers to the heads has not changed much either. However, you make "mocking up how you're going to run pipes to clear everything" sound like drinking a glass of water. You need signifcant work to design a proper flow that creates proper exhaust dispel.

A lot of armchair engineer/mechanic talk in your post. I have installed the shit chinese headers for friends on a budget. They are garbage in the the terms of quality and fit. I will spend the extra money on "just a brand" without blinking an eye for better fit, results, and durability every time.

Uh, REALLY.

Ok, i'll give you stepped headers since they have researched those, but what about the $1k+ price on their non stepped headers? What in the fifth gen is different than pretty much any of the other LS cars besides space. While I don't have headers on mine, every header install thread says that installation is the easiest of any other platform. That tells me there's plenty of room to "develop" the piping route. Why does everyone go straight to Ebay chinese headers when we have shops on this board offering 304 SS headers for considerably less? You can buy whatever headers you want for whatever reasons you want but the OP asked the reason for the price difference and I told him my opinion.

[789the]

billy boat long tube

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by axis

Uh, REALLY.

Ok, i'll give you stepped headers since they have researched those, but what about the $1k+ price on their non stepped headers? What in the fifth gen is different than pretty much any of the other LS cars besides space. While I don't have headers on mine, every header install thread says that installation is the easiest of any other platform. That tells me there's plenty of room to "develop" the piping route. Why does everyone go straight to Ebay chinese headers when we have shops on this board offering 304 SS headers for considerably less? You can buy whatever headers you want for whatever reasons you want but the OP asked the reason for the price difference and I told him my opinion.

Its not a sporting thing to do to say its not a topend car,compared to the 4th gen it is .There are some on this forum that considered their cars to be a topend cars and to make it sound inferior isn't the most intelligent thing to do on a CAMARO forum.He simply asked a question and I gave him a factual answer ,he ask why some are so much cheaper and I answered.I never said anything about performance,just the fact why they are cheaper.Also you said you don't have headers so where are your facts coming from the internet?