TSP- HEADS/CAM/Fast102/NK102/UD 481rwhp 426rwtq - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

*mlee* · 08-09-2011, 01:17 PM

You already know the cam I have has got a nice split for Nitrous. We have it running on 5 or 6 cars now with great results... I believe I lost around 10 to 12hp from 20's to 22's. If I hadn't been concerned about PTV I would have gone with LG, but happy with the choice I made.

JETG · 08-09-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlee

You already know the cam I have has got a nice split for Nitrous. We have it running on 5 or 6 cars now with great results... I believe I lost around 10 to 12hp from 20's to 22's. If I hadn't been concerned about PTV I would have gone with LG, but happy with the choice I made.

Yep didn't figure the 22's robbed me of 10-15. I am going to give it a week and decide if I want to change out the cam. Not in any hurry at all the car sits most of the time collecting dust. Just will be happy to have it back in my garage now.

Might just have to see what the difference is with the G6X3 and TSP cam. Would also make sure it goes back to same dyno.

blk5genss · 08-09-2011, 02:01 PM

Hey there JetG I think you and I have been in a few threads together, but just wanted to say those are really good numbers nothing to be disappointed with the car looks great, sounds awesome I bet, and makes the same power as most supercharged cars!!! I have the 231/236 cam with the LSXR intake and supporting bolt on's and I am happy with my results! I will be upgrading to the same heads you have in a few months only difference is I will be dropping down to 17's so when I
re-dyno the car I will hit you up to let you know if it made a dramatic difference or not. If you wait about a month my neighbor will actually be doing the same mods that you have now to his car except he will be going with the LG cam but other than that pretty much identical mods! We just have to get back to the states so we can get to work on it! Not to direspect your tuner but maybe you should try someone else before you change out the cam? I went to Lethal Performance and they got a lot out of my car! How far is cypress from san antonio? Their shop is located off of 281N coming into san antonio! Just a thought! Congrats man that car is awesome!!! I wish I would have chose that color instead of black but black is pretty much the only color I've hade for the last 6 vehicles I've had! BTW the bottle is the way to go!! Talk to DietCoke!!

JETG · 08-09-2011, 05:07 PM

Blk5genss thanks and I believe we have talked about this set up a few times. Just wanted to see what it would do. Didn't turn out as much as a supercharged car well not yet at least. But I am pretty sure if I change the cam out to the LG cam I bet it will. I had already planned to do it. But changed my mind considering all the parts are from TSP and would have thought they would work better together. The numbers are disappointing to have full bolt ons and run these numbers. I do however understand one dyno is not the same as another dyno. So think I will pick up the car this evening and in the coming day/week have it strapped down to a different dyno and see what it does. I am confident in the tuner so that shouldn't be the issue. The torque sucks, which with this heavy of a car is what makes it move. Hence why I want the bottle on it as nitrous will make a torque monster for sure.

Patrick G · 08-09-2011, 05:37 PM

JETG, your numbers are strong. Trying to compare runs from different dynos is always hit and miss. You might have gained more than you thought. You may have just been on a conservative dyno the second time around.

I would caution anyone with ported heads or mill heads to measure your piston to valve clearance before running a cam like a G6X3. I've measured a bunch of LS3s and I can tell you that you are at .080" P to V clearance with a 231 intake lobe on a 112 intake centerline. For every 2 degrees of duration increase, you will lose .006" of P to V. For every degree of advance in ICL, you lose .006" in P to V. A G6X3 is a 235 intake lobe with an ICL below 109. That means that the P to V clearance on the intake is less than .060". Not safe IMO. Then if you add milled heads or valves with less valve drop, you're really in trouble. This is why it pays to measure.

JETG · 08-09-2011, 05:58 PM

Patrick I understand that, and if decide to go the lg way I will for sure have if measured. The heads are NOT milled, they are TSP cnc heads with the lightweight valves. I think so far the first plan is have it dynoed on another dyno to see the comparison to the previous dyno. It might actually have more than it is saying. Just not 100% sure yet. Still have to pick up the car this evening and see what if any difference it feels like. If memory serves me correct I remember your name from ls1tech. As this isn't the first car I have built. Had a 98 SS th350 heads cam gas and 9", MY zo6 and a 04 ctsv.

LC · 08-09-2011, 06:16 PM

Just to give you an example..

the M6 car:

stock shortblock, LS7 small bore heads / custom cam / stock LS7 intake...

Same as you 22" COR Precise on 315 pirelli rubber.. AND 4.33s!

made 417whp UNCORRECTED on a mustang dyno 9765 DA
made 499.99whp SAE on a dynojet

Tuned on the mustang and took it to the dynojet because it was baselined there.

154whp increase.. My numbers seem low for what has been done to the car, yet as most of the big hitters will say... the dyno is a tuning tool.. you baseline and you tune for the most power. end of shit.

JETG · 08-09-2011, 06:36 PM

LC nice rides. I wonder what your car would have done minus the 433 and stock gears. I would think you would actually be 530-40ish. I am sure I will have it dynoed again just for comparison. I do understand it is just a tuning tool. I just expected more and have been told this dyno this time was and reads 15 lower than previous dyno used. Now if that is correct it is still low that would be 496rwhp and 441 rwtq. In my opinion I would have expected 505 or so and torq a little higher. I am looking to push it to 7-800 so this is just a start.

LC · 08-09-2011, 07:29 PM

In my nothing near expert opinion:

Best bet would be dyno again on the 20s on the first dyno where you "baselined"

However, I see you lost torque, It would be nice if we could compare both powerbands on the same dyno on same wheels.

But from what I have seen you are not gaining much from the 102mm combo and just got some power out of the heads and UD pulley or even losing some with the 102..

LS7 lifters and LS3 lifters are the same Part Number why did you change them?

navyblueSS · 08-09-2011, 07:29 PM

Very nice car! As others have said you can't compare numbers when two different dynos were used. I would go back to the dyno you used the first time before even thinking about changing the cam out. Also were the weather conditions the same as when you dynoed the first setup, as that will make a big difference as well.

Chris@SPMC · 08-09-2011, 07:30 PM

A lightweight flywheel would free up some power to the wheels and you're going to need a clutch soon especially if you plan to spray it. That and the stock wheels will probably net you the difference between 481 and 500. When was the other dyno done in this horrible heat wave we're experiencing?

JETG · 08-09-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris@SNL/Monster

A lightweight flywheel would free up some power to the wheels and you're going to need a clutch soon especially if you plan to spray it. That and the stock wheels will probably net you the difference between 481 and 500. When was the other dyno done in this horrible heat wave we're experiencing?

I have been looking at your clutches. Just not sure that the stage 5 will hold in the end results. I would think once I am all done with the car in the next year or so, it will push close if not over 1000. Right now goal 700+ on spray.

JETG · 08-09-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LC

In my nothing near expert opinion:

Best bet would be dyno again on the 20s on the first dyno where you "baselined"

However, I see you lost torque, It would be nice if we could compare both powerbands on the same dyno on same wheels.

But from what I have seen you are not gaining much from the 102mm combo and just got some power out of the heads and UD pulley or even losing some with the 102..

LS7 lifters and LS3 lifters are the same Part Number why did you change them?

Might strap on the 20's and go redyno it and see what it does. As for litters always hear about bad lifters so just changed them out

Jason 98 TA · 08-09-2011, 10:18 PM

Great results! I bet the car gains atleast 15 if you borrow some stock 20s.

08-09-2011, 01:17 PM	#15
mlee CamaroFans.com Drives: ZLE & ZR2 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Conroe, TX Posts: 37,958 View My Garage	You already know the cam I have has got a nice split for Nitrous. We have it running on 5 or 6 cars now with great results... I believe I lost around 10 to 12hp from 20's to 22's. If I hadn't been concerned about PTV I would have gone with LG, but happy with the choice I made. __________________

08-09-2011, 02:01 PM	#17
blk5genss Drives: 2010 Camaro 1SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Anonio, Texas Posts: 574	Hey there JetG I think you and I have been in a few threads together, but just wanted to say those are really good numbers nothing to be disappointed with the car looks great, sounds awesome I bet, and makes the same power as most supercharged cars!!! I have the 231/236 cam with the LSXR intake and supporting bolt on's and I am happy with my results! I will be upgrading to the same heads you have in a few months only difference is I will be dropping down to 17's so when I re-dyno the car I will hit you up to let you know if it made a dramatic difference or not. If you wait about a month my neighbor will actually be doing the same mods that you have now to his car except he will be going with the LG cam but other than that pretty much identical mods! We just have to get back to the states so we can get to work on it! Not to direspect your tuner but maybe you should try someone else before you change out the cam? I went to Lethal Performance and they got a lot out of my car! How far is cypress from san antonio? Their shop is located off of 281N coming into san antonio! Just a thought! Congrats man that car is awesome!!! I wish I would have chose that color instead of black but black is pretty much the only color I've hade for the last 6 vehicles I've had! BTW the bottle is the way to go!! Talk to DietCoke!! __________________ TSP Cam 231/236 112 LSA,TSP UD,Fast 102 w/Ported TB,AirAid CAI,1 7/8 catted Stainless Power LT,3 IN MBRP 3 in Exhaust/180*,Spohn LTA's,Toe Links, Drag Bar,Diff bushings,Hurst shifter,Hendrix/DSS 1400HP Axles,Nitto NT555R's,Lethal Performance Custon Tune 480 RWHP 454 RWTQ!! Best run so far is 11.94@121 LPE 3.91's Coming soon NW 102, and DSS DS, then car should be complete!!!

08-09-2011, 05:37 PM	#19
Patrick G Drives: 2009 Pontiac G8 GT Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Victoria, TX Posts: 52	JETG, your numbers are strong. Trying to compare runs from different dynos is always hit and miss. You might have gained more than you thought. You may have just been on a conservative dyno the second time around. I would caution anyone with ported heads or mill heads to measure your piston to valve clearance before running a cam like a G6X3. I've measured a bunch of LS3s and I can tell you that you are at .080" P to V clearance with a 231 intake lobe on a 112 intake centerline. For every 2 degrees of duration increase, you will lose .006" of P to V. For every degree of advance in ICL, you lose .006" in P to V. A G6X3 is a 235 intake lobe with an ICL below 109. That means that the P to V clearance on the intake is less than .060". Not safe IMO. Then if you add milled heads or valves with less valve drop, you're really in trouble. This is why it pays to measure. __________________ 2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 Forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, ECS NOVI 1500 blower, 222/242 .629/.604 121LSA EPS cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, NPP exhaust, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, no meth, w/stock street manners. 2014 GMC Yukon XL Denali, Air Raid MIT, tuned. 2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph Texas Mile 2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 Texas Mile LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7 Custom Camshaft Specialist

08-09-2011, 06:16 PM	#21
LC ou mai gad Drives: SW 2SS x2 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: MX Posts: 643	Just to give you an example.. the M6 car: stock shortblock, LS7 small bore heads / custom cam / stock LS7 intake... Same as you 22" COR Precise on 315 pirelli rubber.. AND 4.33s! made 417whp UNCORRECTED on a mustang dyno 9765 DA made 499.99whp SAE on a dynojet Tuned on the mustang and took it to the dynojet because it was baselined there. 154whp increase.. My numbers seem low for what has been done to the car, yet as most of the big hitters will say... the dyno is a tuning tool.. you baseline and you tune for the most power. end of shit. __________________

08-09-2011, 07:29 PM	#23
LC ou mai gad Drives: SW 2SS x2 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: MX Posts: 643	In my nothing near expert opinion: Best bet would be dyno again on the 20s on the first dyno where you "baselined" However, I see you lost torque, It would be nice if we could compare both powerbands on the same dyno on same wheels. But from what I have seen you are not gaining much from the 102mm combo and just got some power out of the heads and UD pulley or even losing some with the 102.. LS7 lifters and LS3 lifters are the same Part Number why did you change them? __________________

08-09-2011, 05:07 PM	#18
JETG Drives: 2011 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 486	Blk5genss thanks and I believe we have talked about this set up a few times. Just wanted to see what it would do. Didn't turn out as much as a supercharged car well not yet at least. But I am pretty sure if I change the cam out to the LG cam I bet it will. I had already planned to do it. But changed my mind considering all the parts are from TSP and would have thought they would work better together. The numbers are disappointing to have full bolt ons and run these numbers. I do however understand one dyno is not the same as another dyno. So think I will pick up the car this evening and in the coming day/week have it strapped down to a different dyno and see what it does. I am confident in the tuner so that shouldn't be the issue. The torque sucks, which with this heavy of a car is what makes it move. Hence why I want the bottle on it as nitrous will make a torque monster for sure.

08-09-2011, 05:58 PM	#20
JETG Drives: 2011 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 486	Patrick I understand that, and if decide to go the lg way I will for sure have if measured. The heads are NOT milled, they are TSP cnc heads with the lightweight valves. I think so far the first plan is have it dynoed on another dyno to see the comparison to the previous dyno. It might actually have more than it is saying. Just not 100% sure yet. Still have to pick up the car this evening and see what if any difference it feels like. If memory serves me correct I remember your name from ls1tech. As this isn't the first car I have built. Had a 98 SS th350 heads cam gas and 9", MY zo6 and a 04 ctsv.

08-09-2011, 06:36 PM	#22
JETG Drives: 2011 Camaro SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 486	LC nice rides. I wonder what your car would have done minus the 433 and stock gears. I would think you would actually be 530-40ish. I am sure I will have it dynoed again just for comparison. I do understand it is just a tuning tool. I just expected more and have been told this dyno this time was and reads 15 lower than previous dyno used. Now if that is correct it is still low that would be 496rwhp and 441 rwtq. In my opinion I would have expected 505 or so and torq a little higher. I am looking to push it to 7-800 so this is just a start.

08-09-2011, 07:29 PM	#24
navyblueSS Drives: 2002 Camaro SS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Quitman, LA Posts: 609	Very nice car! As others have said you can't compare numbers when two different dynos were used. I would go back to the dyno you used the first time before even thinking about changing the cam out. Also were the weather conditions the same as when you dynoed the first setup, as that will make a big difference as well. __________________ 2015 1LE - CAI intake, TSP longtubes, NPP, Futral Motorsports tuned, BMR 1"lowering springs, BMR trailing arms

08-09-2011, 07:30 PM	#25
Chris@SPMC Account Suspended Drives: '99 H/C FRC Corvette and '07 TBSS Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 175	A lightweight flywheel would free up some power to the wheels and you're going to need a clutch soon especially if you plan to spray it. That and the stock wheels will probably net you the difference between 481 and 500. When was the other dyno done in this horrible heat wave we're experiencing?

08-09-2011, 10:18 PM	#28
Jason 98 TA Drives: Camaro Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,670	Great results! I bet the car gains atleast 15 if you borrow some stock 20s.

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