Had the pleasure of driving a 5.0...

[big hammer]

5.0's are lame.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by big hammer

5.0's are lame.

Living in denial?

[2012 IngotSilver 5.0]

Originally Posted by big hammer

5.0's are lame.

If that's true, then by your very own reasoning the LS1 in your WS6 must be lamer still.

Because if the 5.7L LS1 makes ~330hp, that's 58hp/liter. The new 5.0 makes 82hp/L.

Really.

[2012 IngotSilver 5.0]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

I don't think most are hating.

I certainly am not!

You won't find me in a Mustang site trying to convince people about how great the Camaro is. I have no interest in hanging out in a Mustang site.

I'm here because I actually owned a 10 V6 Camaro and became familiar with this forum and the people here. Met a few at some car shows, nice peeps.

[asrautox]

I actually cross-shopped both cars (crazy I know), and was able to get extended test drives in both and I would echo the OP's thoughts completely with the exception of the interior. I actually prefer the SS interior over the Mustang. I like the gimmicky gauges and ugly radio console. It just feels more campy than the faux-luxury silver and black layout in the Mustang. The seats of the Camaro felt more comfortable as well. In the end I chose the Camaro as my car because:

1. It feels like more of a muscle car than a pony car. Sure you can't see very well out of it, but driving it is like nothing else. It just feels downright mean.

2. Handling does seem more planted in the Camaro. The mustang handles very well and sticks like it's on rails, but it feels like it's working harder.

3. Braking and accelerating the the Mustang evokes a lot of pitch and dive. The nose goes WAY down when you brake and WAY up when you punch it. The Camaro is more composed and has great brakes.

4. Looks. I really don't need to elaborate here as the Camaro just looks so much better.

[DevilsReject97]

It's always nice to see people post their objective opinions about cars they drive. It can really make a difference both on how you view a vehicle as well as reinforce ideas you may have already about said vehicle. It can also change your own opinion once you actually do drive it.

I have always been a Camaro fan, ever since I was a kid. My first real muscle car ride I can remember was in my uncles 69 Z28. I have always wanted one since. Unfortunately, reality sinks in and you cant always have what you want. When I went looking, the pricing on the Camaro was still atrocious and the new 2011 GT's were on the lots. I priced one up and was like I'll wait until winter is over to get it. Came back, the pricing went up about 5k for the same car and I said screw it.. found a 1SS for 2k under invoice and called it a day.

I've driven several Camaros and Mustangs in various rentals and test drives. I had a good feel for both cars and both are good cars to buy.

Having said that, I'll throw my .02 into the ring here as well..

Looks: The Camaro wins here, simply because they didn't just follow suit like Chrysler and Ford did. Both the Challenger and the Mustang are clones of previous quality models. The Camaro? Took the 69 as an idea and made it better. Are there flaws? Sure...but you can say that with any car. I also happen to be a big fan of that phat ass on the Camaro too..

Ride: Push. The Camaro has a great feel to it and I love the way the car launches when you get on it. The Mustang also has a pretty decent ride as well. It all depends on the way you drive the car whether or not you can tolerate how the car handles. My biggest complaint with the Camaro would be that it didn't need 20" wheels.. My biggest complaint with the Mustang is that after hours of riding in it, my ass was sore.

Power: Push. Both cars are built a bit differently and it really takes a good couple of days to really get that idea. The Mustang is fast, but it's not faster than the Camaro. The differences in terms of speed are more about weight than actual feeling. The Camaro feels fast, the Mustang feels fast. The difference is simply physics. If you really shift both cars at the right points, both are great to drive. However, driving one car the same way as the other = fail. They're built with different types of engines..

Interior: Mustang. I'm sorry, I just don't like the dash or the stereo on the new Camaro. I like the gauges, it's cool and retro, but the rest has to go. Also toss that crappy moronic idea of lets throw the cup holders RIGHT behind the shifter. I'd rather lose one cup holder or better yet, the storage area in the console than have to deal with that. I still prefer the seats of the Camaro however, as I feel like they are more firm and feel more solid.

Space: Camaro. Obviously the Camaro is a bigger car, built on a bigger platform, so it's going to have more space. However, the space I'm referring to is the front seats, not the rest of the car. In the Mustang, I felt very crowded around the steering wheel as well as I felt like I was sitting too close to my passenger. I want a little room between me and my passenger. I don't want to have to hold hands to shift my car.

Trunk: Mustang. I think that this has been beaten to a pulp but the idiots who designed the trunk opening on the Camaro just need to be beat senseless...it's a horrible design and arguably the only thing on the Camaro I can say I truly hate. It's not that I need to put a ton of crap in the car. It would be nice however to fit something larger than a bag of groceries through the opening. I couldn't even fit my 10" subwoofer box into the trunk...had to put it in the passenger seat when I bought the car. Granted, I should have taken it out, but still..

Options: Push. Both cars have a lot of great options that you can get. Sync with Ford, Onstar with GM, great fuel economy on both the V6 and V8's compared to previous years. Both cars have a few options that are special to their respective brands. If there's any edge here, it's that the Mustang is in like year 7 of the same basic build and can have the additional mods for gears, exhaust, etc...

Transmission: Camaro. Really? This isn't even close. The Tremec is a proven beast, and it's doing it's part every day. The issues Ford are having with their Chinese built trannies has only gotten worse. Still, that hasn't prevented Ford from putting a performance car out that is well done.

Weight: Mustang. Let's be honest, there's no reason the Camaro should weigh 3800lbs.. it's why the Mustang beats us in the 1/4 mile. It's not because of a better car, it's because of weight.

Blind spots: PUSH. I always laugh when people talk to me about how bad the blind spots on the Camaro are. Then I see them get into a Mustang. Both cars are horribly bad when it comes to blind spots, and yes, the Mustang is just as bad. The difference is how the cars sit, and how tall you are as to how bad they are. In the Mustang, I really had to sit low in the car to see anything, as I was always too high. In the Camaro, I actually can sit pretty normal and see mostly everything. The trunk still sits way too high so backing up can be tricky since you can't see anything.

Decision: I bought the Camaro because it was what I wanted. I love the car, love the look, and I enjoy driving it every day. Would I have loved the Mustang? I am pretty sure I would have loved driving it too. As much as the Camaro? Probably not. I really love this car.

I'd also like to add that both cars are great to drive, great to own, and make us all have a better experience because ultimately they push the envelope for the next model that we all get excited over.

The Camaro is two years old, they're rolling out model year 3 and haven't made a single change performance wise to the SS. Ford meanwhile knew the Camaro was coming out and put out a new motor that's just barely eclipsing the Camaro. It's very impressive, has lots of potential, but as was previously said, the Camaro got an older motor. However, the Camaro also got what GM had on the shelf at the time and the LS3 was the top motor without borrowing the LS7 or LS9 from the Corvette.

Shave some weight, throw the newer 5.5 smaller block at the Camaro....and I'm seeing a win for Chevy. They've done pretty damn well for a new model release, now let's get to that performance upgrade...

[thePill]

Chevrolet would be wise to not do anymore upgrades before the 50th Anniversary Mustang comes out. The "old" 5.0 will be receiving upgrades, some possibly in 2013 but most will wait until 2014/2015. Chevrolet will be confronted with a 430-450hp, 405-415tq base Mustang GT, still getting 27-29mpg highway with a 3400lb curb weight.

As long as Chevrolet keeps the Camaro 10,000 units above the Mustang, you won't see any big dollars put into the LS3. However, since sales of the 5th Gen Camaro are worse than the 4th Gen at this point, upgrades might be needed... The 6th Gen isn't an option until September 2016 at the earliest for a 2017 Anniversary model (still not comfortable with Camaro anniversaries). The question is, how long can the 5th Gen last at the current sales pace and with a future sales slump associated with an aging model? The 3rd year into production is usually the drop off point as seen throughout the past 50 years in the Mustang, Camaro and Firebird.

I ultimately bought the 2011 5.0 because the 2005-2009 Mustangs looks didn't grabbed my attention like the 2010 did when I first saw it. I had money in hand to buy a 2005, 2006 and 2007 GT in 2007 but since it took so long for me to actually get a 2005 Mustang, I finally decided against it after seeing the Challenger. I was again pulled back into the Mustang market with the GT500 and stayed there until the Camaro came out in 2009. I spent almost an entire year on and off with the car, an entire month in Hawaii which is where I seen my first 2010 Mustang. I grew out of the Camaro very quickly and alot of the old Camaro flaws were right there in the 2010. I needed a track car and I am sorry to say this but, the 5th Gen Camaro is not a track car. With alot of work, it could be but at this point, the whole car works against it just to resemble the 1969 Camaro (more of a 1970 Chevelle in my eyes). I ordered the 2011 GT after the announcement was finalized in March 2010 and never looked back.

The transmission I got in my 5.0 is incredible and even if Ford replaces it for free, I would have a hard time letting them change it. Unless, Getrag upgrades the MT-82 back to the 6MT1500, then I would think about changing. I have had nothing but trouble with Tremec's and even today there are problems similar to the MT82s in the TR6060 in the GT500 and SS besides, the TR6060 has grown to be a very heavy transmission and expensive for a foreign part. I know many of you do not know this but, Aisin and Tremec both buy their internals from the same manufacturer in China and are shipped to Japan and Mexico to be assembled. The Getrags internals are actually made in Liverpool England and shipped to China to be constructed. The only American made transmissions the Mustang and Camaro use are the Livonia in the 5.0 and V6 and the 6L80 in the L99, even then, some of those parts are purchased from China or Europe. From what I read on this site alone, I see just as many problems with the manuals. The NTHSA has almost as many submissions for the Aisin transmission as the MT82 and, there are TR6060 issues with shifting as well. Every single year the Mustang has been produced since the early 80s has had a handful of issues, the difference today is that the internet has supplied the same 12 individuals to power to hop from one site to another, complaining about a car that they do not have a VIN number for. You will see on the NTHSA site that there are about a 1/4 of complaints with no VIN (some are GT500s) and it seems that Ford will not be doing a recall due to the NTHSA's findings. NTHSA has thrown out over 50 complaints due to skip shift involvement, the count is back down to 89 for 2011s it was 160 at the highest point and false claims were quickly sorted through.

I hope some realize that there are penalties for filing false claims to a government organization...

[JWoj3540]

nice comparison B-Rex...thanks

[Cinder]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

The mustang is switching to IRS for comfort

And talking about going global, as good as the SRA is in the Mustang its a majority no-go outside the US (with the exception of folks who are genuinely Mustang fans as opposed to people who want a "hey, look at me" car)

As for IRS vs. SRA the one thing I seem to really read in the debate is driver confidence. Ford uses a 3-link with a panhard rod so the suspension moves in two arcs as it articulates and when your really hammering the Ford it can feel disconcerting for somebody who doesn't regularly drive a Mustang since it feels like its tossing the axle out the side of the car.

Moving from the previous gen Mustang with its super incredibly craptacular 4-link to the S-197's 3-link the effect of the panhard rod was readily apparent but its largely if not completely invisible to me now.

Bumps probably play into that as well but I've never found them to be a problem in my car (granted I dont drive in the sister cities of Detriot and Baghdad) and I've driven on some bumpy roads, the caveat being maybe Camaro guys can go full throttle across pot holes or chucked pavement?

[67rscamarovette]

Originally Posted by ParisTNDude

I wonder why Mustang is going to IRS in 2015. It kinda looks like a bunch of high paid Ford auto engineers don't agree with you. All the magazines say the Mustang bump steers considerably, so maybe on a smooth road the Mustang could compete well with IRS cars, but in real world real roads, the IRS is much better. There has to be some reason why only Ford in the performance world has stuck with a solid axle rear end and they don't win many road races. I think they invented the Ford rear suspension in about 35 BC by the Romans and their charriots...lol

Um, dude. Don't talk about spensions when you don't have a clue. Bump steer has nothing to do with rear suspension of any kind.

The only time a solid rear sucks is when you hit a crack in an offramp and lose traction to both instead of one tire like IRS. There are tons of guys with solid axle pro-touring cars that will annihilate a 5th gen around a road course.

Chariots rode on leaf springs, does that mean Corvettes suspension sucks?

[67rscamarovette]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

In the Camaro, I actually can sit pretty normal and see mostly everything. The trunk still sits way too high so backing up can be tricky since you can't see anything.


Shave some weight, throw the newer 5.5 smaller block at the Camaro....and I'm seeing a win for Chevy. They've done pretty damn well for a new model release, now let's get to that performance upgrade...

I agree with you except these two points. You must be about 5'4 to see out of a camaro, I'm 6'1 and my head hits the roof.

2: REMOVE displacement, are you crazy? The LS3 has huge potential, is lightweight and is cheap to mod. The performance upgrade will be best served by a weight loss. There's a guy I know with a mild cam LS3 in a '67 running consistent mid 10's. The power is there, the car is not optimized.

[67rscamarovette]

Originally Posted by '11BlackV6Stang

If that's true, then by your very own reasoning the LS1 in your WS6 must be lamer still.

Because if the 5.7L LS1 makes ~330hp, that's 58hp/liter. The new 5.0 makes 82hp/L.

Really.

Anyone who uses hp/L as an argent should receive an instant 3 day ban. It's a typical ignorant import owner argument, and worthless.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by 67rscamarovette

Anyone who uses hp/L as an argent should receive an instant 3 day ban. It's a typical ignorant import owner argument, and worthless.

and not to mention the 5.7 in the z06 made what, 405 hp YEARS ago...

[67rscamarovette]

Originally Posted by big hammer

and not to mention the 5.7 in the z06 made what, 405 hp YEARS ago...

The Z06 engine is the same engine used in the Camaro and Firebird. The cam is slightly better, and it has the 243 casting heads which are MUCH better.

The 5.0 mustang makes great power from its smaller displacement due to it's valve configuration. Coyote heads flow incredibly well.