Official Hypertech Programmer Thread - Page 10 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

KMPrenger · 09-27-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu71

That seems very low rwhp even for a stock car, right? The reason I ask is GM claims 312 hp at the crank and roughly 15% drivetrain loss would mean 265.2 hp, if the drivetrain is better, you may see as low as 12% loss so 275 rwhp. Hypertech claims stock theirs made 275 rwhp. I'll have to look around on C5 for dyno sheets on the LLT. Is yours normal or is that low though?

15% might be the minimum loss for a manual V6, but from all the dynos I've seen the loss seems to be more at 16 or 17%. The loss for our automatics are even worse, in the 20-21% range.

BSR-1 · 09-27-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu71

It shouldn't need any time to adjust since you are putting the programmed tune right into the ECM. Just make sure you are running premium fuel for a few weeksn before and through the tuning day so the stock tune stays on the high octane table.

Hey that led me to a question. Since there are two tables in the stock tune, which the Hypertech should copy and store, when you flash back to stock, does the ECM automatically default to the high octane tables? Or must the ECM re-learn which tables to be on? I know this ECM doesn't need a fuse pull to reset the ECM, but exactly how fast can it jump back and forth between tables? How often does it try the high octane table and wait for spark knock, etc. Sorry about the slightly off topic, but this would help those who are going to dyno tune so they know they get truely comparable numbers.

The V6 has only one table and uses knock retard to control detonation.
The V8 has a high and low octane table.

BSR-1 · 09-27-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

15% might be the minimum loss for a manual V6, but from all the dynos I've seen the loss seems to be more at 16 or 17%. The loss for our automatics are even worse, in the 20-21% range.

I'd say average HP#'s for the manual are around 250 stock.

VR Baron · 09-27-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

15% might be the minimum loss for a manual V6, but from all the dynos I've seen the loss seems to be more at 16 or 17%. The loss for our automatics are even worse, in the 20-21% range.

Or even 27% for A6 on a bad day or low dyno.Those 230 hp stock# s vs 312 net are about that.

KMPrenger · 09-27-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSR-1

I'd say average HP#'s for the manual are around 150 stock.

I'm guessing you meant 250?

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbee

Or even 27% for A6 on a bad day or low dyno.Those 230 hp stock# s vs 312 net are about that.

True, but thats including weather/altitude and all those other factors that drag down the numbers even further.

With ideal temps, altitute, and dyno setup for a stock V6 a manual should see around 260 to 265 and autos somewhere around 245 to 250. Just my educated guess based on the many dyno runs I've seen here.

Shu71 · 09-27-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSR-1

The V6 has only one table and uses knock retard to control detonation.
The V8 has a high and low octane table.

Ah ha! That explains it then. So a flash of the ECM with the Hypertech will immediately show on a dyno and then the reflash back to stock would again immediately show. Thank you!

bmorecam · 09-27-2011, 04:42 PM

Every dyno will give you different results. We have 312hp at the crank but this does not mean we will see a perfect number of around 265rwhp for manuals and 255rwhp for auto on the dyno. On one dyno you might see 230rwhp and at another 270rwhp. Dyno is simply a measuring tool from one mod to another.

Here is a perfect example..

ChadG · 09-27-2011, 04:47 PM

So can you only change the shift firmness in Drive or does it work for Sport Mode as well? I always use Sport mode - I can't remember the last time I used Drive.

Shu71 · 09-27-2011, 04:49 PM

bmorecam,
I couldn't agree more on the variations in dyno numbers from one to another and even on the same one over a period of time. It is a tuning tool. The engines in stock form have variations as well based on build quality, break in, mileage, etc. This is why it is so important to minimize the variables in order to have data that is reputable. So for those who want to see how much the Hypertech really gives to the rear wheels, you have to do a before and after as close in time and conditions as possible.

scrming · 09-27-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu71

bmorecam,
I couldn't agree more on the variations in dyno numbers from one to another and even on the same one over a period of time. It is a tuning tool. The engines in stock form have variations as well based on build quality, break in, mileage, etc. This is why it is so important to minimize the variables in order to have data that is reputable. So for those who want to see how much the Hypertech really gives to the rear wheels, you have to do a before and after as close in time and conditions as possible.

Here's even a BETTER example... Here was my Camaro on the dyno... 1st pull (cold) was 251... we kept doing back to back pulls... PEAK HP was reached on the 5th pull!!! Final number was 263!

So I gained 12 RWHP just by doing the HEAT MOD! LOL!

Shu71 · 09-27-2011, 05:00 PM

scrming, that is one of those varaibles that needs to be controlled to get a true comparison. Engine (water, oil, cylinder, etc) temps are huge. When I run my Harley on the dyno I have to be very careful of engine temps in order to get repeatability due to it's air cooled nature.

scrming · 09-27-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu71

scrming, that is one of those varaibles that needs to be controlled to get a true comparison. Engine (water, oil, cylinder, etc) temps are huge. When I run my Harley on the dyno I have to be very careful of engine temps in order to get repeatability due to it's air cooled nature.

Yep... totally agree... it just really highlights the need to do that!

Shu71 · 09-27-2011, 05:21 PM

scrming, is yours 100% stock in that dyno?

What I am finding interesting is Hypertech's stock numbers, 274 rwhp. Maybe uncorrected? Sort of irrelevant really as the gain is what is important from data like that since you have to assume they were very careful to ensure the accuracy of the increase.

scrming · 09-27-2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shu71

scrming, is yours 100% stock in that dyno?

What I am finding interesting is Hypertech's stock numbers, 274 rwhp. Maybe uncorrected? Sort of irrelevant really as the gain is what is important from data like that since you have to assume they were very careful to ensure the accuracy of the increase.

no, that was modded... but i had an automatic... stock was 248 RWHP... manuals dyno quite a bit higher..

09-27-2011, 04:42 PM	#133
bmorecam Account Suspended Drives: jealous vendors mad!! HAHA!! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: CYBERGMONSTER@GMAIL.COM Posts: 3,658 View My Garage	Every dyno will give you different results. We have 312hp at the crank but this does not mean we will see a perfect number of around 265rwhp for manuals and 255rwhp for auto on the dyno. On one dyno you might see 230rwhp and at another 270rwhp. Dyno is simply a measuring tool from one mod to another. Here is a perfect example.. Attached Images

09-27-2011, 04:49 PM	#135
Shu71 Drives: 2011 Camaro RS M6 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 795	bmorecam, I couldn't agree more on the variations in dyno numbers from one to another and even on the same one over a period of time. It is a tuning tool. The engines in stock form have variations as well based on build quality, break in, mileage, etc. This is why it is so important to minimize the variables in order to have data that is reputable. So for those who want to see how much the Hypertech really gives to the rear wheels, you have to do a before and after as close in time and conditions as possible. __________________

09-27-2011, 05:00 PM	#137
Shu71 Drives: 2011 Camaro RS M6 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 795	scrming, that is one of those varaibles that needs to be controlled to get a true comparison. Engine (water, oil, cylinder, etc) temps are huge. When I run my Harley on the dyno I have to be very careful of engine temps in order to get repeatability due to it's air cooled nature. __________________

09-27-2011, 05:21 PM	#139
Shu71 Drives: 2011 Camaro RS M6 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 795	scrming, is yours 100% stock in that dyno? What I am finding interesting is Hypertech's stock numbers, 274 rwhp. Maybe uncorrected? Sort of irrelevant really as the gain is what is important from data like that since you have to assume they were very careful to ensure the accuracy of the increase. __________________

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09-27-2011, 04:47 PM	#134
ChadG Drives: 2010 Black Camaro LS Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,679 View My Garage	So can you only change the shift firmness in Drive or does it work for Sport Mode as well? I always use Sport mode - I can't remember the last time I used Drive.