Color Poll..are the colors good enough?

[wilmaya]

Well, I picked up a 2012 Brochure and no change to the mentioned color offering. I guess your color choice can be made for Saturday. It does have the ZL1 in it. The only picture which takes up two pages is that of it between the 2 Reliable car carriers. Just some basic information on it and of course Spring 2012 availability. The most information given is that the tires will be the Eagle F1 G-2 SuperCars, 285/35R20 and 305/35R20 and 20x10 front and 20x11 rear rims. It's not even listed on the specifications page so maybe a ZL1 only flyer will become available later.

[Blue Menace]

What I find so interesting about this inane subect is that it can produce an 8 page long thread, whereas my legitimate question about magnetic ride and PTM garnered a grand total of 8 POSTS. Can enthusiasm about this car be less myopic?

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by Blue Menace

What I find so interesting about this inane subect is that it can produce an 8 page long thread, whereas my legitimate question about magnetic ride and PTM garnered a grand total of 8 POSTS. Can enthusiasm about this car be less myopic?

..I guess that shows you how important color choice is.

Sorry fbodfather, absolutely no disrespect intended, but I did state I didn't want more excuses. I have decided to keep beating the crap out of the horse because it ain't dead by a long shot.

This poll means something, and another excuse for poor color selections don't fix the problem
.
I don't know why its such a big deal to listen to the people passionate about the car. I don't HATE the colors, I am just saying they are BLAH like 56 percent of my fellow Camaro bretheren.

I agree with the excuse that nobody will like all the colors. I disagree that the best attempt to do so has been attempted. I think if you had a good selection, instead of 56 percent who think colors could be improved, I would expect arount a 30 percentile as acceptable as far as not pleasing everyone with the number of different colors allowed. In the sixties with the large number of colors I would have pegged the dissatifaction of colors at 10 to 15 percent max. We can't reach that figure with 8 colors, but 30 percent is attainable.

Don't take it so personal dude. I am not asking YOU to change the colors, I know that is beyond your capability as you have already stated. I believe you when you tell me no new colors for two years, I just think that is a shame and a poor marketing decision IMHO. Especially since nothing cars like nieman marcus (sp?) get special colors, where as the top dog ZL1 is limited to standard colors.

I AM saying I would like to see color choices on the Camaro and ZL1 Liven up a little instead of dreary central. Others are as passionate about color as I, or this post wouldn't have so much interest. Until I see a legitimate reason to stop beating the horse I will be turning it into horseburger.

And by the way, I am 48 not 9, and I do have a deposit on a ZL1, and have owned more than a dozen various Camaros in the past and present.

Maybe I should get the voters to qualify themselves on here as to age and purpose, but it seems to me If I were Chevrolet I would not want to shut off communication on the car from people of any age. Rejoice in the passion and concern. If people thought little of the car they wouldn't care about the colors.

The nice thing about forums is people can express their position politely and free speech can still exist. If people are more inclined to hate this thread, leave it alone and don't post. Its a free country.















If the dang horse gets up we need to beat it some more....

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

I welcome different points of view as long as they are based on reality and not "well they know what they are doing" "they have experts" or "sales tell us this or that" as those are not legitimate arguments.

How is what sales not a legitimate argument?

[Disco]

Hey! I have the solution! Have you guys heard of "Body Shops"
Its a neat place where you can get your car painted ANY COLOR you want.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by Pappa Joe

I know how to make em change colors......nobody buy 1,take your deposits back,buy a Ford ....That will learn em!

When I got that far into reading I literally felt a wave of nausea. I got from the context that you were being tongue-in-cheek, but it took me, scratch that- IS taking me a few minutes to recover.

..........


Ya know guys & gals, I've made peace with what is, and I'm gonna be loving my Black, IBM, or possibly Ashen ZL1... until I paint it Dusk Blue whenever I decide to go there. It won't be in the first couple of years while the factory paint is new and the car has no dings.

I'm pretty sure I understand to an extent how Scott feels as I read his posts. He wants us to all be happy as buzzards on a gut-wagon, but the old maxim that you can't please all of the people is one of the prime constants in the universe. It always gets in the way. We appreciate you listening and talking with us Fbodfather, and know that it's not your choice, more of a choice of fitting into the constraints of marketing and physical & fiscal limitations. We know you're passionate, but do try to keep from tying square knots into your bowels.

The biggest problem is as Scott has said, it's a subjective thing. What one person thinks is the bomb, another will call, "crap."

That said, while the poll is unscientific, that doesn't necessarily indicate that it doesn't contain valuable information. It may point us toward asking better questions and thereby understanding the group psychology that is influencing our color conundrum.

I agree that in large part the subjectivity of colors creates most of the imbalance, but taking all of the negative posts about color choice as a whole into consideration at once, I think I see a secondary cause.

It's rooted in the human natures of pride and machismo. I don't say that as a negative thing, only as an observation. Camaros - and especially ZL1s - are macho filled cars to be driven by guys & gals with an abundant portion of MO-JO, as Austin Powers would put it. People like us love to be . p:e:a:c:o:c:k:s. .. Sometimes we express that by being dark and sinister, like the best selling Darth Vader Black, and sometimes by showing feathers & screaming, "look at me!"

If I had a quarter for every time someone used the word "bold" in a color thread I would have a considerably larger down payment for my beasty.

So one hypothesis I have as to the color dissatisfaction as a whole is that the majority of the color palate looks like it was chosen by committee rather that out of passion. Inoffensive colors have trouble appealing to what I'll call the . "p:e:a:c:o:c:k: factor" . of human nature.

I expect the colors were in fact chosen by committee, and I understand why it must be done that way, BUT... (and you knew there was a but)

... I firmly believe that there would be much more satisfaction in the choices across the board if at least a couple of the colors weren't chosen by committee, but out of a single individual's passion.

Consider what might happen if you took the Disciples, before considering the color question, and had each one pick one color. Tell them not to consider any limitations of logistics or manufacturing constraints. Just for an exercise pick one color that they would LOVE to see driving down the street, or something that they believe everyone would see as mind-blowingly-cool and eye catching. Synergy green was a perfect example. Producing even one of the colors they picked would fulfill the. "p:e:a:c:o:c:k: factor" for a large portion of the naysayers.

It would fill a psychological gap, which is what I believe this poll is truly indicating, albeit unscientifically. I speculate that satisfaction would be enhanced for a large majority of those who are passionate about Camaro. Even if that color didn't sell over 4%, we would all still think of it as one of our "feathers."

Sales numbers of a particular color might not be the only factor concerning color choices that has an effect of the group psychology of the customer base. A certain number of people might just be drawn in by the wow factor and decide on Camaro because it appeals to that part of their psyche, even if they didn't ultimately buy the one that brought them into the fold.

Just my considered opinion.


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Edit: If any of you MODs could approve PiEiAiCiOiCiK as a valid word choice, that would be kinda cool and appreciated.

[1BADZL1]

Just a quick thought that popped into my noggin...
Not that it matters but ill say it anyway as it was simply a thought..
Not that it has bearing or impact..
I am reflecting back and asking myself this question...
or at least to what I have "heard" on the subject anyway..
Why did camaro plunge... from the earth as we know it in 2002?
.... Sales......
They say mustang was doing better....
Ok.... makes sense to me... why make a car that does not sell?
You stop making it. Period. Irregardless of the competition winning and selling more rustangs than camaros... Keep in mind I realize this is the most primitive way of looking at it.. but was it not the "ROOT" of the cause for camaro to drop out of site? Sales??
But everyone got back together and with everyone's "faith"
& collective effort it was done it again. Camaro has made it back!
Right?
Something happened. Camaro came back.. and obviously is doing well in sales or it would have been dropped again....
So someone somewhere..... or a combination of a collective effort on everyone's part is doing something right.
It would take that same collective energy or group effort to change the camaros colors. Is that not right?
Not wishing bad karma here on camaro...
but just a thought... IF camaro suffered a decline....in sales mind you...
Would not the team as a collective whole do everything possible to save it before the brand was dropped again? Even if it meant to change the steering wheel, or change the rims, or add a leather binder to the owners manual, or
alter the paint pallette, or change out the current seats, or add this, or take away that...would they ( the whole entire camaro team that brought back the 5th gen camaro ) not do everything unimaginable to try and save camaro
our "Friend" from drowning due to poor sales?
I think they would. In fact... I am certain they would...
Ill just add one more thing..
Colors won't change for 2012, or 2013... That's a fact Jack!
BUT.....
Never ever give up on your dreams people!

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by MY68RS

just a thought... IF camaro suffered a decline....in sales mind you...
Would not the team as a collective whole do everything possible to save it before the brand was dropped again? Even if it meant to change the steering wheel, or change the rims, or add a leather binder to the owners manual, or
alter the paint pallette, or change out the current seats, or add this, or take away that...would they ( the whole entire camaro team that brought back the 5th gen camaro ) not do everything unimaginable to try and save camaro
our "Friend" from drowning due to poor sales?

The premise of your assertion is logically flawed. They have been doing everything they can to bring our "Friend" the Camaro back, and have done so spectacularly.

The natural conclusion that your statement leads to is that no one should buy it if it isn't perfectly what everyone wants.

That would be far more mythical than unicorns, dragons, and twins that look like Kate Beckinsale and have a kinky fetish for old fat guys.

In other words, you've asked for something impossible.

My point is that your line of thought is counter productive.


.

[1BADZL1]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

The premise of your assertion is logically flawed. They have been doing everything they can to bring our "Friend" the Camaro back, and have done so spectacularly.

The natural conclusion that your statement leads to is that no one should buy it if it isn't perfectly what everyone wants.

That would be far more mythical than unicorns, dragons, and twins that look like Kate Beckinsale and have a kinky fetish for old fat guys.

In other words, you've asked for something impossible.

My point is that your line of thought is counter productive.


.

With respect:
Where did I say
"that no one should buy it if it isn't perfectly what everyone wants."
Taken completely out of context as was not anything I was implying..
If anyone thought that... well... your wrong.. as I was not implying.
"In other words, you've asked for something impossible."
HAHAHA!
Impossible? No. Improbable? Maybe....
"My point is that your line of thought is counter productive."
so you say...
against the "grain" maybe? EXACTLY MY INTENT...
carry on..

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by MY68RS

With respect:
Where did I say
"that no one should buy it if it isn't perfectly what everyone wants."
Taken completely out of context as was not anything I was implying..
If anyone thought that... well... your wrong.. as I was not implying.
"In other words, you've asked for something impossible."
HAHAHA!
Impossible? No. Improbable? Maybe....
"My point is that your line of thought is counter productive."
so you say...
against the "grain" maybe? EXACTLY MY INTENT...
carry on..

My last post was rather direct, I didn't intend for it to sound harsh, but it kinda did. I was in my analytical mode already, and I get a bit Sheldon-like when I'm in that place.

I believe my inference may have been out of line from your implication, Bro.

Yeah, I have plenty of respect for you too, just having a college debate flashback here.


.

[1BADZL1]

Originally Posted by Scarrzz

My last post was rather direct, I didn't intend for it to sound harsh, but it kinda did. I was in my analytical mode already, and I get a bit Sheldon-like when I'm in that place.

I believe my inference may have been out of line from your implication, Bro.

Yeah, I have pleanty of respect for you too, just having a college debate flashback here.


.

No harm caused. Now have some pop corn. Check my new title change.. it could help you..

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

How is what sales not a legitimate argument?

Because as I have already stated, sales reflect what is available to buy, not all colors are available to buy, so sales are absolutely not a legitimate argument.
All that sales can do is tell you which color that you offer may be more popular than another that you offer, but even that information is skewed because many cars are built on "spec" and not ordered in a particular color because a customer wants that color.

[Scarrzz]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Because as I have already stated, sales reflect what is available to buy, not all colors are available to buy, so sales are absolutely not a legitimate argument.
All that sales can do is tell you which color that you offer may be more popular than another that you offer, but even that information is skewed because many cars are built on "spec" and not ordered in a particular color because a customer wants that color.

2012ZL1 has a logical point there, Mac. Sales of custom orders would be a direct indication, but not total sales - because what is available isn't typically the entire color palate.

.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

..I guess that shows you how important color choice is.

I believe there is a bit of the "bike shed" effect at work with regard to color choice:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO...ESHED-PAINTING

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Sorry fbodfather, absolutely no disrespect intended, but I did state I didn't want more excuses. I have decided to keep beating the crap out of the horse because it ain't dead by a long shot.

I think what you all calling "excuses" others may call "the realities of mass automobile manufacturing today."

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

This poll means something, and another excuse for poor color selections don't fix the problem.

The results of a self selecting, non-scientific poll on Camaro5 means that a number of anonymous users of Camaro5 have registered a vote, and not much that's meaningful in terms of a large automobile manufacturer being able to offering color choices that can viably be produced and sold.

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

I don't know why its such a big deal to listen to the people passionate about the car. I don't HATE the colors, I am just saying they are BLAH like 56 percent of my fellow Camaro bretheren.

I agree with the excuse that nobody will like all the colors. I disagree that the best attempt to do so has been attempted. I think if you had a good selection, instead of 56 percent who think colors could be improved, I would expect arount a 30 percentile as acceptable as far as not pleasing everyone with the number of different colors allowed. In the sixties with the large number of colors I would have pegged the dissatifaction of colors at 10 to 15 percent max. We can't reach that figure with 8 colors, but 30 percent is attainable. ... I AM saying I would like to see color choices on the Camaro and ZL1 Liven up a little instead of dreary central. ...

Since just about everyone agrees that color is a very personal and subjective issue, and the more color choices that are available, the more likely people will be satisfied with the colors offered, what I think you're essentially asking for is to have the number of color choices that was available in the 1960s available today, which would allow enough colors so that most would be happy with the color choices.

In the 1960s some colors were only produced on 0.5% or 0.8% of the vehicles sold, and in 1965 when Chevrolet produced 25% of the cars that were sold in the U.S. (yes, Chevrolet Division only, not total G.M. corporate) those color volumes were possible.

Unfortunately, the realities of mass automobile manufacturing today dictate otherwise.