Went to go order a 2SS (Price gouging)

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by SummoneR

You make a decent point... BUT! One major flaw... why would anyone buy your house for well over market value (or a car over MSRP) when he can go to the next house (or dealer) and buy it for FMV (MSRP)... I have some friends that are trying to do the same thing right now, they want way more money for their house than the market is willing to pay. They have been trying to sell it for a year now... So yeah we should be upset at the people who pay more than MSRP, just like the people around my area who lived in the bay area buying up all our houses for almost double what they were worth, driving the prices through the roof with people getting into bidding wars over it... and look what happened! IMHO I think the realator's should have said wait! this cant happen you are paying way more than what the house is worth we already have an offer... just the same way the dealers should say people are offering MSRP I should as well.

right now market value is probably above MSRP.

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

right now market value is probably above MSRP.

SSSHHHH!!!!

Actually it's not when dealers are selling them for MSRP... IF every dealer said okay bidding is open.. then you can determine FMV. But when you have dealers offering MSRP and some even offering the employee and or supplier pricing... there is no FMV there is MSRP and what people charge in relation to that.

I do admit my analogy was a little stretched in that houses don't have an MSRP... They are priced based (or should be anyway) based on the cost to build plus profit and enough to build another )or 3 times the cost to build one) thats the ideal model. But we all know other factors come into play... like what kind of neighborhood is it, what are otehr houses in the area selling for etc...

[themossman]

Originally Posted by SALISBURYCHEVROLET

Attacking my character and my reasoning for not taking deposits I was sure was going to happen when I joined the Forum. I rather expected it. (Maybe a reason whay alot of dealers do not do it) I came on and posted beca.....will be no easy task either. When you only get a few things are thin..It is a s simple as that. I just had to do a follow up post. Flame if you want but I at least took the time to respond..Dan

If you really and truly cared about your customers you would have ordered them exactly what they wanted in the order in which they showed up at your door with cash in hand.

No excuses.

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by themossman

If you really and truly cared about your customers you would have ordered them exactly what they wanted in the order in which they showed up at your door with cash in hand.

No excuses.

QFT!

[Douge]

Salisbury, I think you should run your business anyway you want and IMO you are entitled to try and make the most profit you can through your efforts. But let me say this. Having been on car forums and around dealerships for 20 years myself, I have seen a dramatic increase in the knowledge and market place saavy of average new car buyers over the past ten years or so. Look at this site, most dealers are well behind the curve of information that flows on this board alone. It is almost inevitable that you will have local buyers who will visit you electronically or physically who will also traffic this site and will make your marketing plans transparent. You seem to understand that so I don't know why you would even bother to address it. I agree with most here and think putting a high production car like a camaro on ebay for the purpose of pulling money in over msrp is stupid at best and completely disengenous at worst. You will have to lie to a customer about availability to "create" the call for action. There will literally be hundreds of them on ebay just like the Vettes. There is no reason in the world to order all your SS loaded to the gills which I bet you didn't do anyway other than to make the case again that you have some "limited" production car that you will never see again. People on this board of all places no better and you come off very poorly trying to pitch a strategy that is intended for a few uneducated shoppers who have no idea they are even making a new Camaro on a group of savvy shoppers who see right through it. Best of luck but you get a C- for not knowing your demographics when you walked in this room.

Now saying all that, I sincerely hope the Camaro is a hit for you and I could care less if you sell them all for 10k over and that in part the Camaro will help you keep the doors open, keep all 50 of your peeps on the payroll and hopefully put some money in the bank at the end of the day!

[Blownhotrodder]

Just to add, no one forces any buyer to pay any particular price. Whether that be over msrp or not. Dealers can ask what they want. If you dont agree with the price then dont buy and go look somewhere else. Obviously this is a hard concept for some to grasp.

[GoldBowtie]

One thing is for sure --

All dealers are independent businessmen, and run their own business and set their own final prices. GM is very, very aware of that ---- it's the LAW.

BUT, that doesn't mean GM likes the practices of some of them! Do you think Cadillac appreciates the dealers (some big ones, too) that put these old fashion, ugly VINYL TOPS, or "Rolls-Royce" grilles, or "Gold Packages" on new Caddys -- and then sits them front and center, showing the Additional Value sticker and the inflated "retail price" of this added junk?? They are referred to as GORPMOBILES and have been denegrating the reputation of Cadillac for years. The dealer has his own side of the story, but amounts to selling cars (some fools can be convinced to but anything) and making money!

ALSO, it's very clear that most customer's DO NOT realize that a dealer is totally separate from GM, and that GM does not sanction everything that he says/does.

We simply have to do business with the dealers that we feel are upstanding (the majority?) and avoid the others. Unfortunately, the nature of the business and the method of incentivizing dealership employees, makes it easy to find "bad apples".

One of the side benefits of the imminent "reorganization", is that, for the first time in a long time, GM will have a greater say in which dealerships close -- and thus, hopefully, weed out some of those who's interests/practices don't square with GM's.

That's my 2 cents worth --- now I feel better!!

[quickdraw]

Many of us have dealt with the same dealer for years, buying many vehicles. We thought that we would have at least been treated straight up in this process only to find out that it is all about the making a bigger buck now, not keeping a loyal customer. I have spent over $400k at this dealership over the last three years, I have an open line of credit with GM for $250k that I just renewed. I will wait for my car to come, whenever that day finally comes and after they sell them on Ebay and at a premium while giving me the lame ass excuse about how they don't understand why GM is building all of there other cars for them first. The day I pickup my camaro I will ask to see the general manager of the dealership and ask him to watch me drive out of his lot and remember what the back of my head and wallet looks like because that will be the last he will ever see of either of us again....or any of my refferals. He may enjoy his short term bonanza of $50k for those 9 cars but will lose my yearly $100-150k of sales. Don't get mad...get even.

[myold88]

Originally Posted by SALISBURYCHEVROLET

First let me say. I did honestly come on the forum to talk with customers. I think I have even shown that I am willing to talk to a customer if they are unhappy. (Would still offer that) maybe some clarification is needed to maybe clear things up a little. I am a die hard Chevrolet Fan and anyone that knows me can tell you that. I came back to the dealership I started my career at when I was 18 years old about 5 years ago. I am now 40.. ( I had previously run a Foreign dealership and really wanted to come back to an American brand. ( Some would call that stupid in the current market) I decided that I wanted to do modified cars like Baldwin Motion, Yenko, to name just a few. First I started with Corvette's (Camaro had not even been fully announced yet) I got together with a tuner (Redline Motorsports) and we started modifying Corvette's. We started with Cam and head packages and then worked are way up to doing Twin APS turbo packages and we made the "Topgun" Corvette that we currently sell 735HP to the Flywheel. Putting out 638HP on a rear wheel dyno.. Living in Upstate New York I tried Ebay to see if their was a larger market for the car. I was amazed to find that ALOT of people were interested in Modified cars. (Have sold to NBA basketball players and a few other high profile people) I even went as far to warranty the cars personally for 2 years. (heavy modifications do void factory warranty on powertrain as we all know) After some time I realized that no other dealer in the country was doing such modifications and backing it with their own warranty. I then started numbering the cars and putting certificates with them. NOW..we move to the camaro. We have plans in store to do the same thing with the camaro..But knowing we needed CARS to do them with I decided to not take deposits and have some available when the time came..Well here lies the problem (Development time) We have to do the research and the fabrication to build these cars and that takes time. We also have some plans on putting the Z06 engines in a few and doing full motor swaps. So as of today the tuner is waiting for his car to get here so he can do the testing..(I actually told him to get one from a competitor because they got allocated one first...and HE did) That is the the interesting part. Now his car is on the way and it will take a few months for him to get the testing done before we can actually start selling them ourselves. So a few weeks ago I decided that seeing that project would be held up a few months I might as well put the first two cars I had coming up on Ebay. Then the ---- hit the fan..To explain my thought process to people everytime I had to explain it was a little long..As is this post. But that is the full reasoning behind the 2 cars I have and what my plans are for some of the future cars that I recieve. I Have already had calls from people all over the Country that have shown serious interest in the future projects I envision. I plan on selling 3 different versions. A slightly modified stock Camaro (Headers, computer tune, suspension)..a Z06 powered Camaro (Engine swap) and a full blown APS twin tubo car..So to make a long story really short that is the story. I tried not to give away all my plans when I joined the forum but maybe the flames would have been a little dimmer if I started out just putting it on the table. I could not really tell alot of people ( including employees) Because to launch something like this the early bird always gets the worm. I am sorry if anyone was offended or bothered by some responses to getting a car but that is the story behind the situation. All I know is currently my store is one of the highest rated dealers in the country in Customer satisfaction ratings so we do things right most of the time. No one is perfect I know that.All I know is I personally paid $5000 over sticker when I lived in California to get the first Yellow Z06 I could find. (Rydell Chevrolet Van Nuys California)They were in high demand..but I gladly paid..(And I am in the business) So I guess maybe that is why I do not have a problem with it. I hope that made sense. Dan

Dan, You sure can ramble on and on but in the end you remind me of the Oldsmobile dealer in the movie Fargo- "gotta have that truecoat."

[Douge]

LOL He went back and deleted his posts. C'mon man, people are being pretty fair here, you don't have to run off.

[themossman]

Originally Posted by Douge

LOL He went back and deleted his posts. C'mon man, people are being pretty fair here, you don't have to run off.

Something about the heat and the kitchen comes to mind. This crowd tends to be extremely reasonable...and I'm sure in his mind he's justifying his departure saying that we just like to bash dealers. However, certain dealers are obviously THRIVING on the forums...I wonder what the difference is?

***cough****honesty*****cough*****

[Douge]

Originally Posted by themossman

Something about the heat and the kitchen comes to mind. This crowd tends to be extremely reasonable...and I'm sure in his mind he's justifying his departure saying that we just like to bash dealers. However, certain dealers are obviously THRIVING on the forums...I wonder what the difference is?

***cough****honesty*****cough*****

Exactly, I respect the guy has the right to do whatever he thinks is best, but the only way to get people to "buy now" is to deceive them.

[ravensjeff]

The only example Dan needs to understand is Quickdraw from Vegas [Above]. That dealer will lose in the long run to make a quick buck now. Not a very good business practice now-a-days. But hey, it's their business. I'm just glad that they are not the dealer I use. I'd leave em too.

[dstairs]

I respect that people want the best deal, and the huge super dealerships and a few others might actually sell you a Camaro for under MSRP or even at supplier or employee price (I work here and even I have to wait until next year if I want a discounted price), however smaller ones like us that are getting less than 10 cars allotted to them TOTAL, need to look at the big picture. I am gladly telling folks looking for a deal, to jump onto camaro5.com and search out a great deal for themselves. If they are not one of our loyal customers chances are they will pay window sticker for their car or greater at our dealership. It is a free market world out there and if a better deal is advertized and found, I am happy for the customer, at the same time I am at a dealership, that has refused to lay off anyone since the down turn in business began, when we had Hurricane Ike breeze through and we all lost almost 2 weeks of work and pay, the Martins paid us out of their pockets, so yes it is a shame that we are all not like Walmart, and slashing prices to the bare bone so everyone gets the best deals, but you need a balance. You either lay off employees, (most have at least 10 year here) or you find ways to pay your staff and keep food on their tables. If we sell only to local loyal customers, then we generate sales for parts and service and also repeat sales for autos. "MSRP", means Manufactorer's Suggested Retail Price, and we will do that if you live here, but with 4.5 million folks within one hour(Houston) of our town of 20,000 people, the demand is high for our little inventory of Camaros. Would I hesitate to sell if offered considerably over sticker? You bet.

In an earlier post someone asked why would someone buy your house for over market value? It happens everyday. Perhaps the view, or the neighborhood, or you have this unique car, errrr I mean house that is very beautiful and takes the breath away just from looking at it, yes I am not really talking about my home but rather a car. LOL