2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500 650 HP! How will it stack up against the ZL1?

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It has Navigation - and it's quite a good system if you ask me. If you mean touch-screen...please specify. And recognize is a low-demand feature. Development monies were better spent elsewhere.

I think the demand is high enough for a screen of some sort. In my honest opinion, the Camaro would simply be the "Complete" all-around car if it had a touch screen. A 6.5 screen would honestly do its justice. Sure we have Onstar but I find myself using my iPhone more then the actual Onstar directions. Even the ZR-1 has a screen, why can't the ZL-1?

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

I look at it this way – I’d much rather have the handling, downforce, and gearing be tuned for a speed range I’m more likely to use rather than 200+ mph.

Don't get me wrong, I think the downforce is a great thing. I'm not too concerned about it though seeing as how I don't plan on taking it to the track. Maybe a little "thumbs up" racing on the highway, but that's about it. I'm really just buying the ZL1 for the novelty of it. I've wanted another camaro since before I got rid of my '95 Z28. Why not get the most powerful production camaro ever built now that I have the chance?

[Uneducated Guess]

Originally Posted by NicolasKL

Or maybe the GT500 has even more downforce than the ZL1 and without that the gap would be even bigger?

Baseless guessing is fun.

true...it's a possibility. I really don't think they'd put more than 150 lbs of downforce on it though. I'm willing to bet that if they did, that 202 mph wouldn't have been possible. just my opinion.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I believe my commenst about the SVT engineers were the polar opposite. Allow me to explain.

When the current Mustang was released the sway bar mounted under the radiator and the front sub-frame ended just forward of the front 'axle'. This configuration allows independent flex of the monocoque and sub-frame reducing the efficiency of the front sway bar. This was obvious to all of us at Pedders. We released a triangulated aluminum front chassis brace. With the release of the 5.0 and new steering Ford added a steel brace to accomplish the same thing.

The point is there is absolutely no way Pedders knew this and Ford didn't. They knew, but to reach a price point selected by the bean counters and marketing experts they went a different direction. This is not something that happens only to Ford. It is common to all vehicle manufacturers aside from a select few exotics. The guys at SVT know what they need to to to build what I consider a high quality 2013 GT500. The question is will the bean counters and marketing gurus allow them to do it.

With the ZL1 it is clear that a number of consumers are disappointing the base price. They see the ZL1 as having too much content. It is a tough call the the OEM to get just right.

If I gave the impression that the CF driveshaft was on the 2013 GT500 I apologize. My post was in response to one that referenced reducing mass to save weight.

Pete, you didn't have to explain, but thanks anyway. I knew from your initial comments you weren't saying anything about the engineers and that the engineers were doing what they could with "what they had to work with" regarding the frame. Hell, Ford loves to use the same frames. Wasn't it the Crown Victoria that used the same frame from 1979 - 2010? They finally dropped in rack n pinion steering about 2000 or so... but its all about the parts bin in some respects. By the way.... for the fun of it I have been looking to see what cars today have BIG SEATS like the Crown Vic's had (some had bucket seats). Like the Mercury Marauder. I cannot find a car with BIG SEATS to save my ASH. Cadillac? No! Suburban? No! They are smaller and smaller. Remember the seats in the 69 Chevelle, GTO etc? Anybody know where you can still find some replacements that big?? Just curious.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Exposure of the CF driveshaft to exhaust heat.

Is heat radiation through air over a couple inches from the x-pipe really enough to bring internal temps of the carbon fiber driveshaft over glass transition though?

[HPT BANDIT]

Here is a pic of the test mule driveshaft.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Is heat radiation through air over a couple inches from the x-pipe really enough to bring internal temps of the carbon fiber driveshaft over glass transition though?

The exhaust from a boosted engine is hot enough to soften resin in a CF shaft on a road course with the exhaust as shown in the picture. In a word, yes.

[obzidian]

About the nav, I think that gm ran with an interior design that they thought would be a shoe in. With that, though folks did.voice that a touch screen would be a great option, they pus to push the onstar navigation system. Honestly, its quit useless and/or uncomfortable. A touchscreen would he a fantastic option and yet another piece of the puzzle that makes the gt500 a better buy. If possible, I would move on and make a screen work with the radio buttons. (I actually love the radio/hvac controls!)

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

No the back end end still looks hideous, escpecially the lights.

Your opinion and that's great. For me I love everything about the car now.

[|BLACKSS|]

Who cares about ford I don't give a damn if the ***** stangs have 1000hp its still a worthless waste of time and material.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by obzidian

About the nav, I think that gm ran with an interior design that they thought would be a shoe in. With that, though folks did.voice that a touch screen would be a great option, they pus to push the onstar navigation system. Honestly, its quit useless and/or uncomfortable. A touchscreen would he a fantastic option and yet another piece of the puzzle that makes the gt500 a better buy. If possible, I would move on and make a screen work with the radio buttons. (I actually love the radio/hvac controls!)

I have Sync and OnStar. There are big plusses to both.

Sync does an awesome interface with my iPod, but if I forget my phone I am dead in the water.

OnStar operates off different towers than my cell and in rural areas still connects when my cell deosn't. When I leave my phone on my desk I sure like the OnStar system.

The touch screen in my Denali is cool, but doesn't make that big a difference

[sed34]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It's not in any position worthy of this sort of criticism. What's wrong with it? Really? Is it "loosing" to a competitor that doesn't exist, yet? Is text on paper THAT strong to undermine so much time worth of development and enthusiasm?

This is the way things are supposed to work. Product, counter-product..."and the consumer wins"...I'm fine with that...not upset AT ALL that the GT500 is being improved. Not at all.

But right now, in this thread and another...people are making a big deal over nothing...because that's what people tend to do; react without thinking much. And THAT'S what is frustrating me...especially considering some of these people call themselves Camaro enthusiasts, yet are SO quick to throw the car under the bus without knowing much of anything.

To be perfectly clear: I am NOT writing the '13 GT500 off...but if anybody thinks for a second that an extra 100 hp and some adjustable shocks (if you order them) are enough to put the current car "easily" over the top of a techno-marvel like the ZL1...you're crazy.

At best, it'll be an unrefined, murderous, terrifying car to drive when ordered in standard, unsupported configuration. Which most will, I'll bet, considering the extra options they've added will not be cheap in the least. When configured properly, I'm sure it'll be more expensive...and we all know how well the GT500 KR was.....

these are the people that look at hp numbers and automatically declare a winner. Easily impressed. That is why ford did that. Its a more is better argument.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It will never win. I think maybe that's where parts of this conversation stem from...this Sheen-ish "winning" complex. What's there to win? The cycle will continue forever...until economics, physics, or an asteroid stops it. The only other gauge to fill this desire, imo, would be to take a good look at who's leading this dance...

Most buyers are going to be brand/nameplate loyalists, anyways - on both sides....what they're really doing with these cars is keeping the fan-base happy. Because if they don't, someone else will.

If the '13 GT500 is on the same level as the ZL1 (in my mind, doubtful)...I'm sure Chevy will do something to trump...but you've got to think, at this point, options might be limited...It would appear to me that they've maxed out their available reserves of technology and performance parts....unless they take a few months and "tinker" with the LSA to make that in-between engine we all spent some time speculating on.

But still....that's only if it's necessary...and I'm not altogether convinced it will be from what Ford is saying they've done.

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

It has...and the segment SHOULD be on notice...but Ford has nicely fluffed us all with their marketing, again, to take the wind out of our sails....GT500 better stop barking so loud and show some real bite...

I, for one, am not intimidated, upset, doubtful...whatever.

100 hp added to an already difficult car does not diminish the standard equipment and all-around prowess of the ZL1. Are we so quick to forget what this thing is packing??

And all for a price comparable to a similarly equipped (but woefully missing content) '12 GT500?

Despite this sound byte of "650 hp"...the ZL1 still has a LOT going for it that the GT500 does not. I caution the Camaro faithful not to lose sight of this.

you don't have to tell me twice. To me camaro wins. More people agree with that, because camaro trumps ford in sales.

[2ndCamaro79]

Its not about HP and I will tell ya WHY!

The 4th Gen Camaro had more HP and beat up on the Mustang like a bully. However the Mustang sold more and the Camaro was laid to rest in 2002.

Fast forward to the 5th Gen! The new 5.0 GT and the Boss destroy the current SS. (I just watched the AutoCar UK video of the Boss 302 and the SS Camaro) It hurt really bad, I might have nightmares . That being said the Camaro is still winning in sales!

The Mustang can do what they want but Chevy has lightning in a bottle and they will answer back(the 2013 Shelby) and spank Ford once again.

Till then for 2012 ZL1 is King!

[almach]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

Its not about HP and I will tell ya WHY!

The 4th Gen Camaro had more HP and beat up on the Mustang like a bully. However the Mustang sold more and the Camaro was laid to rest in 2002.

Fast forward to the 5th Gen! The new 5.0 GT and the Boss destroy the current SS. (I just watched the AutoCar UK video of the Boss 302 and the SS Camaro) It hurt really bad, I might have nightmares . That being said the Camaro is still winning in sales!

The Mustang can do what they want but Chevy has lightning in a bottle and they will answer back(the 2013 Shelby) and spank Ford once again.

Till then for 2012 ZL1 is King!

I want a shot at the title, I have a stock 2012 Shelby GT500, and we can meet at a drag strip half way between us. Bring your stock 2012 ZL1 aka: the King but you can't wait too long, nothing remains stock!