Open Letter from Al Oppenhieser to the Camaro Nation and Ford.

[chopss]

love it. great move GM

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Tob,

It's not the link back... LOL that's fine... there's just no need to stir the pot with a post from 5 months ago on a different site.

ThePill is welcome here as long as he can be objective about what both cars are capable of

Agreed Blur, but, from our past experience with that individual he has proven that he can't hold himself to that standard. His rhetoric rises to a flat out F bias at times, with negative Chevy connotations.

Originally Posted by camaroitalia

sounds like the perfect evening

i am proud of both companies, but i will lean strongly to the zl1 at the track and if shelby can get the power down right the 1/4 mile will be given to them.
It is a great time and a sad time to be a car guy, seeing all of these new cars and power numbers is great! sad part is, i can barely afford to look at them.

I understand, and, the F product if so delivered from the factory at 650 HP will shurely provide a sticker shock like no other American peformance car ever produced. Ad 15-20% over the MSRP of the ZL1. So, you wanna pay? Be my guest. Chevy has the best value for it's class. Period.

Originally Posted by Betiwin

I'm sure they will drop "little boy" and finish off the war come February when both cars are reviewed by he mags.

First of all, mags are rags. They are biased and one sided...ie...not objective. Secondly, your writing skills are atrocious. If you want to be taken seriously please use a spell checker or use the King's english properly. You sound like a dolt.

[Rangore]

[HPT BANDIT]

Anyone noticed the PP and track pack will come with R-compound tires?
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/

[htron50]

As said in so many threads already.... 70 HP difference? Does it really take Ford 70 more HP and 400 less lbs to compete? Comon... Ford is relying on less weight. And, those damn raindrops on the roof of a Mustang kill the nice tunes ... and give you a hint of it's core...

[72MachOne99GT]

Clearly by my screen name I am nothing more than a Mustang enthusiast who has had more than a healthy dose of discussion on several different forums. Odds are that most of my comments will be bypassed in a thread as busy as this one, but I suppos that shouldn't stop me from putting forth a few points. I'll try to keep them as organized and 'medium' winded as possible.

First, and this is probably my favorite point. Regardless of whichever car wins this 'war' for the year, I find it VERY difficult to believe that potential buyers, let alone those of you with orders already placed, are going to back out of your pride and joy. People who buy a 50-60,000 dollar Muscle/Pony car are lunatics. Just because one or the other wins some race on a European track by a second or less does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that you're suddenly going to love your dream car any less.

Secondly, and this point has been hammered home over and over, nobody really knows what the GT500 is capable of. Sure, the last few years it's been an overweight, slightly out of control pig (see also: almost every muscle car pre 20xx lol) but so has the camaro. The ZL1 is going to be a son of a bitch, hands down, regardless of where it finishes.

Next, I've done a fair share of 'dwelling' on this forum, other forums, and more than a healthy dose of Mustang forums to know that either way, despite what happens in a magazine, or factory sanctioned race, the winner is going to talk crap, the loser will make excuses, and next year will be a totally different occurance for both sides.

I can't sit here and say that I have not seen more than a fair share of blind fanboyism on this site, but I'd be lying if I even tried to pretend I hadn't seen plenty on the Mustang/Ford sites I frequent.

If you've read this, thanks for wasting your time

One more thing....... *Taking my chance to show my Mustang fan-ism*

IF, and I put a heavy heavy emphasis on if, the GT500 stickers as a base model around 52-53K (which as hard as it may be to swallow, is very feasible), can be had with all the track options for under 60K, and proceeds to outperform the ZL1 in every aspect, then there are going to be a TON of individuals who are going to have to learn one HUGE part of life. "You can't always be number one. And really, WTF is so bad about being number two?"

I'll be ordering my car December 15th of 2011. (Assuming that's the actual ordering start for the Shelbys) Grabber blue, stripe delete, performance package, and recaros. Happy hunting fellas!

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by SSmoked

If anything the ring should suit the fords 650hp 200+mph claim. the ring has alot of long straights to let the ford get to its speed.
I dont see the 600tq ford running controlled on a tigher track with its tiny tires and jurassic suspension

Actually, the Ring has very few long straights where the Camaro would lose to a 70HP advantaged Mustang. The longest straight may be the only place where the Camaro would top out and the Mustang might gain on it. It's a pedal to the metal straight of at least 3 or 4 miles, but I suspect that even it the Camaro topped out at that point, because of it's vastly superior handling traits, the Mustang couldn't catch it there. I drove at least 15 to 20 laps on the Ring in a 2002 Corvette and there's nothing like it....awesome. the ZL1 would rule!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Clearly by my screen name I am nothing more than a Mustang enthusiast who has had more than a healthy dose of discussion on several different forums. Odds are that most of my comments will be bypassed in a thread as busy as this one, but I suppos that shouldn't stop me from putting forth a few points. I'll try to keep them as organized and 'medium' winded as possible.

First, and this is probably my favorite point. Regardless of whichever car wins this 'war' for the year, I find it VERY difficult to believe that potential buyers, let alone those of you with orders already placed, are going to back out of your pride and joy. People who buy a 50-60,000 dollar Muscle/Pony car are lunatics. Just because one or the other wins some race on a European track by a second or less does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that you're suddenly going to love your dream car any less.

Secondly, and this point has been hammered home over and over, nobody really knows what the GT500 is capable of. Sure, the last few years it's been an overweight, slightly out of control pig (see also: almost every muscle car pre 20xx lol) but so has the camaro. The ZL1 is going to be a son of a bitch, hands down, regardless of where it finishes.

Next, I've done a fair share of 'dwelling' on this forum, other forums, and more than a healthy dose of Mustang forums to know that either way, despite what happens in a magazine, or factory sanctioned race, the winner is going to talk crap, the loser will make excuses, and next year will be a totally different occurance for both sides.

I can't sit here and say that I have not seen more than a fair share of blind fanboyism on this site, but I'd be lying if I even tried to pretend I hadn't seen plenty on the Mustang/Ford sites I frequent.

If you've read this, thanks for wasting your time

One more thing....... *Taking my chance to show my Mustang fan-ism*

IF, and I put a heavy heavy emphasis on if, the GT500 stickers as a base model around 52-53K (which as hard as it may be to swallow, is very feasible), can be had with all the track options for under 60K, and proceeds to outperform the ZL1 in every aspect, then there are going to be a TON of individuals who are going to have to learn one HUGE part of life. "You can't always be number one. And really, WTF is so bad about being number two?"

I'll be ordering my car December 15th of 2011. (Assuming that's the actual ordering start for the Shelbys) Grabber blue, stripe delete, performance package, and recaros. Happy hunting fellas!

Well thought out first post!

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by SSmoked

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/dr...d-shelby-gt500

Ill just leave that there for those who say the ford wasnt built on the ring.

The fact that Ford had GT500s and Boss 302s at the Ring was highly discussed on C5 at least a month ago...I thought everyone who read even 5 posts on C5 knew that. They were actually on the track (at different locations) at the same time as the ZL1 according to some of the military Mustang Fanboys stationed there. They even reported that the Mustangs were timing faster laps than the ZL1...but, who knows.

[REAPER SS]

Personally, I love how Chevy is putting the ball back in Ford court. It shook alot of people when Ford said 650hp for the GT500, so Chevy is just standing by their product and letting people know that the ZL1 is still a better car and they dont mind standing by it. I mean, if you got the most powerful production v8 motor....whats the problem??.???

I gotta say Chevy pulled Ford skirt up on this one and thats why I say to the Nay sayers...dont judge so quickly

[svtman]

I'm having a hard time understand why GM would want to challenge the GT500 to a road race. Even if GM were to win that race which i'm not sure it will it's not the reason people buy this type of car.

These are muscle cars with a ton of power meant for the most part to tear it up in a straight line. This is how most people drive these cars anyways. When you see racing videos you always see quarter miles races at the track or a roll on the highway. In the end this is what people care about and brag about.

People are not buying these cars to go out and pull a fast and furious around town. So what this tells me is that GM is saying yeah the GT500 is faster in a straight line, but we might be faster on a road coarse and in the end even if the camaro wins on the road coarse the real bragging rights in america is in the HP and straight line performance.

This post isn't about bashing the camaro, but just trying to understand GM's thinking.

[Ltespd]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Clean it up.

Stop clinging to brand loyalty please.

Accept what both cars are good at and admit that we don't know if one is better than the other just yet.

I love the idea of a challenge. Very nicely played GM. Ford needs to step up or shut up. I admit I'm on the fence about both cars. I like them both. So for me the best performer is the one I want. I'd be pulling for the Camaro to come out on top. I love the way it looks.
Headed to the LA Auto Show. Can't wait to see the ZL1 and the GT500. If I see a Ford rep I'm gonna ask them about the challenge.

[zero]

anybody think that maybe ford did cover all their bases and GM is playing right into there hand. Ford has stole alot of the thunder without even saying anything about 0-60, quarter mile and lap times.

now lets hope the GT500 is not the real deal. They made the boss 302 lap faster around laguna seca than alot of $$$ cars with it`s ancient horse and buggy rear axel so anything is possible.

[Bad70supreme]

Originally Posted by Sav

Lol, I love all of this benchmark racing. Let's get the facts straight first:

2013 GT500:

Curb weight: 3,850 lbs
Horsepower rating: 650
Torque rating: 600 lb-ft

Driveline: 5.8L all-aluminum DOHC V8 with 2.3L TVS supercharger; TR6060 6-speed transmission with twin-disc clutch; one-piece carbon fiber drive shaft; Torsen torque-sensing helical gear limited slip differential; fluid coolers for both the trans and differential.

Tires: Look to be 285 Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar G:2 tires at the moment.

Electronics and Goodies: As far as suspension is concerned, the modified and cross-braced solid rear axle remains, but is beefed up on the GT500, as it was for 2011-2012. No specific word to how it was modified.

However it does feature:

-Bilstein electronically controlled adjustable dampers on all four corners
-Revised spring rates
-Larger Brembo brakes with now 4 piston calipers up front
-Electronic launch control - similar to that of the Boss 302.

I fail to see how most of you think that the GT500 won't outperform the ZL1 in most every performance area.

The magneto rheological shocks aren't a cure-all for the fact that the ZL1 has less power and torque (580hp and 5556 lb-ft), and weighs 350lb's more than the 2013 GT500.

And if you think that Ford's SVT didn't address the traction issue, then ignorance is bliss. If you think that they just shoved an extra 100 horsepower into the equation, so that the GT500 could spin the tires off, then you're nuts, and you obviously don't know much about how SVT engineers it's vehicles, or how to build a complete vehicle that performs well in all aspects of design.

Have fun licking your wounds, and convincing yourself that the GT500 is going to get "stomped" by the ZL1.

When the time comes, I foresee a lot of people on here eating crow. Have a nice evening gentlemen

Looks like those guys over there are a little butt-hurt.

Then why did they ever have traction problems to begin with, the designe of the car and solid axle is what has been holding it back.