Open Letter from Al Oppenhieser to the Camaro Nation and Ford.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Holy Crap!!! you agreed with me on something!!!

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Holy Crap!!! you agreed with me on something!!!

I agree with you on a few things, maybe I've just never said it before.

This point hits home for me in a few ways though… well stated.

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

You misunderstand me. If the 5th Gen Camaro is the most badass car you have owned, . I am not dissatisfied with the Camaro at all, I am a car enthusiast. Just like I am sure you don't like anyone lying to you or blowing smoke up your bum, a Chief Engineer making such absolute statements when, like I said, Ford has not made known the GT500's true abilities yet...is simply not too smart. Put it this way, say the GT500 craps all ovet Al's ZL1, what the F is he gonna tell us then? Wouldn't it have been better had he taken a more "political" damage control reply? Then later on, at best, he can say "I told you guys!". Then at worst, he doesn't have to back-pedal. By taking the line he took, if his ZL1 eats GT500 dust, will you ever trust anything that comes outta his mouth?

Personally, I liked what Al said and how he said it. He not only stood behind his product, he backed it it up with an open challenge. Both cars are very powerful but I still believe that the ZL1 will be the better overall package. The GT500 might run a 12.0 to the ZL1's 12.1 quarter mile time but that will not change my mind about either car. I am buying the ZL1 because of the complete package, HP, Brakes, Suspension, Handling and good looks. The GT just now got 6 piston Brembos on the front and NO Brembos on the rear, where the SS has had Brembo's all around from the beginning. I mean really, how much more would it have cost on a $55,000 GT500 to put Brembo's on the rear? Chevy just builds a better overall package. Al has the unique ability to be an engineer, test driver and manager for the ZL1. I going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he knows more about the ZL1 than most of us. I am also going to say that that he knows something else about the ZL1 that he has not told us yet. Pick a car that you are going to enjoy driving, I know that I did.

[IcePick06]

Man these threads never end...crazy how people wanna be publicly known as "superior" to the other team (kinda like my USC vs. UCLA days in college). Funny thing is when you reach a certain maturity, you realize that both products are great and it's all just good fun (again going back to the USC v.s. UCLA rivalry) . I have friends that drive Ford and Chevy, would I buy a Mustang in the future? Maybe. I'm already on deck for a ZL1. I'm sure the GT500 will outperform the ZL1 in a straight line with the lower weight and added horsepower and any type of decent launch control system (which I have faith will be better than nothing at all) will help it do sub 4 second runs from 0-60mph and a quarter mile in the mid-11's. Now from the factory we know the ZL1 will be maybe a tenth or two slower to 60mph and maybe a half second slower to the quarter but who cares. Those that want to improve on that will just upgrade the pulley on the SC--even if it voids the powertrain warranty, such a small pulley upgrade from a reputable company (i.e. Lingelfelter) is likely to not cause any problems since the ZL1 engine was definitely built to take more HP than 580 and more torque than 550.

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

I agree with you on a few things, maybe I've just never said it before.

This point hits home for me in a few ways though… well stated.

I can just see a '12 GT500 and '12 ZL1 arguing about who is faster down the track only to have a crotch rocket dust them both from half track.

That's who we should all gang up against.. Those damn two wheel cheaters.

[den318]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Where to start with this one.......

First of all - let's take a walk back to a couple of years ago.

The housing market imploded - taking the ability to raise money on the open market impossible. We can debate the politics until the cows come home.


what IS true:

>Thank God for the Ford Family that a few execs at Ford had an inkling of what was to come - because prior to the melt-down, Ford mortgaged EVERYTHING - including the staplers on the desks -- and then put the money in the bank - so that they'd have a cash cushion -- had they not done that, they'd have followed GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy. That's simply a fact.

The reality is that there is simply not enough capital for Ford or GM or Chrysler to update all of their cars and trucks every two years.......like it or not, that's a fact.

Thus - one needs to get beyond the "Sport" Segment and look at the larger picture - the automotive business is one of the most competitive in the world - and manufacturers from all over the world wanted into the U.S. Market simply because it was, until recently, the largest in the world. Coupled with the fact that we do not put tarriffs on any passenger cars coming into the U.S. (something that isn't necessarily true in the rest of the world....) In order to compete, every manufacturer must be constantly improving their products.

Your statement that the Camaro team is 'relaxing' or 'doing nothing' could not be further from the truth.

Those outside of the walls of GM (and Ford and Chrysler) simply cannot know evrerything that's being worked on --

As to updates on Camaro -- we replaced the V6 engine - made hundreds of changes beneath the skin of the car (the SS has a new suspension package) - we spent substantial money on the ZL1 - we are also improving the Corvette -- plus I don't think it's a secret that there's a new Corvette coming. On top of that, we are the leader in flex fuel, we are the leader in fuel cell technology (which is another energy source down the road) and we launched the Volt - a car that is unique in that it's an electric car that can be driven coast to coast without stopping every 50 miles to recharge. We're the leader in two-mode hybrids - and we started at the top of the food chain (so to speak) by developing hybrid technology for busses - then trucks - then SUVs rather than at the bottom of the food chain (with subcompacts) The Cruze gets hybrid fuel economy without the hybrid or the hybrid premium......we still lead many segments in top fuel economy - but it's also true that companies like Subaru and Honda can claim fuel economy superiority as a company - because they don't build trucks and commercial vehicles.......

Now - you may say "I don't CARE about Hybrids or Fuel Cells or Electric cars" - and that certainly is your perogative - however, WE have to worry about it because we (all manufacturers) have a 56.6 mpg target as CAFE in the next 10 years......and that's staggering. But - we don't have a choice -

So - I hope you'll understand that capital allocation is crucial if GM and Ford and Chrysler are to stay in business. Ford is now down to two brands that they need to continually develop -- GM is down to four - but that's still a lot of "mouths" to feed.........

So - sorry - you are correct in that we didn't do a mid-cycle on the Camaro in 2012 -- that doesn't mean we're 'relaxing' or that we're 'ignoring' the Camaro - far from it....the team is working LITERALLY around the clock......
and...., as I said, you don't know all that we're working on - and further, if you were running GM and could see what those of us within the organization see - I think you'd also understand why GM didn't do a Mid-cycle.

Do we deserve your business? No - we don't - we have to earn it and we understand that. But please - I'd ask you not to make statements that we're 'relaxing' or that we don't take this business seriously - because that's simply not true.

Can you tell me what kind of surprise you have for the 2013 Camaro SS? Is it worth waiting for? Is it going to finally be able to beat the 5.0 in a drag or track? In the real world, it's always been what have you done for me lately. For the Camaro, that's pretty much nothing in the last 3 yrs. (performance or appearance) I am a little sick and tired of the 5.0 fans bragging. The Gt500 are bragging now as well.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by den318

I am a little sick and tired of the 5.0 fans bragging. The Gt500 are bragging now as well.

Who cares what the Mustake guys say or think?

[Deki]

Originally Posted by den318

Can you tell me what kind of surprise you have for the 2013 Camaro SS? Is it worth waiting for? Is it going to finally be able to beat the 5.0 in a drag or track? In the real world, it's always been what have you done for me lately. For the Camaro, that's pretty much nothing in the last 3 yrs. (performance or appearance) I am a little sick and tired of the 5.0 fans bragging. The Gt500 are bragging now as well.

The difference between the Camaro and the Mustang comes down to the driver. There are magazines that have the SS faster than the GT, some have the GT faster than the SS. I honestly think the Camaro doesn't need an update or a refresh yet. It still looks damn good 3 years after it's release, and it still has plenty of power. It handles great and drives great. Just because one car is slightly faster than the other does not mean that manufacturer has to bump up the power or change the way it looks immediately. It's not like it's a whole second slower to 60 or through the 1/4 mile like the old Mustang was. Just my 2 cents.

[Rice Killer]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Who cares what the Mustake guys say or think?

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Deki

The difference between the Camaro and the Mustang comes down to the driver. There are magazines that have the SS faster than the GT, some have the GT faster than the SS. I honestly think the Camaro doesn't need an update or a refresh yet. It still looks damn good 3 years after it's release, and it still has plenty of power. It handles great and drives great. Just because one car is slightly faster than the other does not mean that manufacturer has to bump up the power or change the way it looks immediately. It's not like it's a whole second slower to 60 or through the 1/4 mile like the old Mustang was. Just my 2 cents.

I'd also like to add a very important consideration. While many of us gladly would take our completely stock Camaros to the track to see what they can do, repeat offenders are not going to pay to hit the same quarter mile time week after week. We're looking to improve. That being said, are we going to leave our cars alone and expect significantly faster times based solely on our driving habits? That would be foolish. We can only expect changes in the performance of our vehicles if we change the way that our vehicles perform.

One great thing about pony cars is that they are not truly intended to be stock. While our Camaros come with class-leading warranties, GM has not designed these cars for tame trips to the grocery store. No, these brilliant, tire-burning monsters were designed to dominate the track, and by the grace of American engineering and ingenuity—a wonder how similar those words truly are—Chevrolet has some competition. GM's neighbors in Detroit have built a car that competes pretty well, and that means that the fun at the track won't be from beating mismatches. It'll be a lot more like watching Final Four games in March because everyone there will instantly recognize the potential for victory or defeat when a new Camaro lines up against a new Mustang. Whether they drive one of these cars or something altogether different, our friends at the track will all take note and hold their breaths for the outcome.

Now, these cars aren't going to be what Chevrolet and Ford built for them. They've got reputations to uphold, and they won't be limited to warranty-approved cosmetic mods. That fire inside that tells the driver to win this race is going to passively nudge him or her to purchase a few extras. That's what makes these cars classic competitors at the track. If Ford comes out ahead by a small margin in a stock contest, who cares? My money's on the track race where a heavily modified Camaro SS, featuring a chrome supercharger, lightweight wheels, and a 5-point harness, takes the win over a similarly equipped Mustang GT. This is why we have these cars. One is going to be a little faster out of the box. Who cares all that much? If you're winning from the factory, are you really going to stop modifying your ride? I'd much rather have Chevrolet's engineers tell us that they gave us all they had and that it's up to us to keep Ford in the rearview.

Basically, these stock bench races are meaningless. None of us with that competitive fire inside are going to leave our cars stock or turn down a race from someone with a few mods. The beauty of racing platforms is that they are designed to test boundaries. This is why we have a whole section of Camaro5 dedicated to comparisons of the Camaro versus whatever we can imagine. Inevitably, someone here will face those strange products, and we'll be racing mismatched platforms at the track. Would you really say no to a race because the competitor is AWD or doesn't have long-tube headers or is a convertible or has some other feature that doesn't perfectly line up to your apples-to-apples comparison? That's not why we race cars. We want to see what they can do after we do what we want to them. Keep on modding, and remember that the only race that matters is the one that you take.

[jazznurse]

Well, my turn to weigh in. I appreciate the letter from Al. And, I'll be proud to have him sign my ZL1 at Camarofest. Since I got my license in '73, I've dreamed of owning a '69 Z28. Well now,as I turn 55, I'm getting more than I dreamed.of. To me, the ZL1 is the ultimate. There will always be something bigger, faster, newer coming down the pike. That's the American way..progress. But I can honestly say that I will be happy with exactly what I signed up for. This is my last toy, and I look forward to taking my ZL1 to cruises, shows, and racing events and long as I'm able to drive. Not matter what comes next, I'll stick with this. It will be more than enough for me. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't be doing a little tweeking....

[Z4me]

Originally Posted by jazznurse

Well, my turn to weigh in. I appreciate the letter from Al. And, I'll be proud to have him sign my ZL1 at Camarofest. Since I got my license in '73, I've dreamed of owning a '69 Z28. Well now,as I turn 55, I'm getting more than I dreamed.of. To me, the ZL1 is the ultimate. There will always be something bigger, faster, newer coming down the pike. That's the American way..progress. But I can honestly say that I will be happy with exactly what I signed up for. This is my last toy, and I look forward to taking my ZL1 to cruises, shows, and racing events and long as I'm able to drive. Not matter what comes next, I'll stick with this. It will be more than enough for me. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't be doing a little tweeking....

amen brother!

[htron50]

Originally Posted by jazznurse

Well, my turn to weigh in. I appreciate the letter from Al. And, I'll be proud to have him sign my ZL1 at Camarofest. Since I got my license in '73, I've dreamed of owning a '69 Z28. Well now,as I turn 55, I'm getting more than I dreamed.of. To me, the ZL1 is the ultimate. There will always be something bigger, faster, newer coming down the pike. That's the American way..progress. But I can honestly say that I will be happy with exactly what I signed up for. This is my last toy, and I look forward to taking my ZL1 to cruises, shows, and racing events and long as I'm able to drive. Not matter what comes next, I'll stick with this. It will be more than enough for me. Of course, that doesn't mean I won't be doing a little tweeking....

As OldScool has said on numerous occassions,,, and if I may plagiarize him:

"WE ARE CUT OF THE SAME CLOTH"...

Thanks GM. Thanks from my "soul".... it's all I can say. I am speechless to have such an opportunity in my lifetime to own this. As I've said before... to me this IS a "Masterpiece"... though I know you (AT GM) are "never done"...

I would hope you are "never done"..... You are NOT developing "flash in the pan" performance... the ZL1 is long term. It will grow now. And change... But you HAVE brought to the Camaro the RESPECT of the Corvette. You have now, with the ZL1 re-ignited what once was a FLASH IN THE PAN (the 69 ZL1) into a true recognized LEGACY PERFORMANCE CAR And, so many of us are here to live it and say we are part of it. WOW.. It's an HONOR.

[bowtiefamily]

Originally Posted by htron50

I would hope you are "never done"..... You are NOT developing "flash in the pan" performance... the ZL1 is long term. It will grow now. And change... But you HAVE brought to the Camaro the RESPECT of the Corvette. You have now, with the ZL1 re-ignited what once was a FLASH IN THE PAN (the 69 ZL1) into a true recognized LEGACY PERFORMANCE CAR And, so many of us are here to live it and say we are part of it. WOW.. It's an HONOR.

I agree whole heartedly