Check your cats...

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by mtbikerinme83

This whole topic has become fairly confusing/contradicting...

We know the stock cats are more restrictive than high flow cats, hence why we can get more power NA or FI with the aftermarket high flow cats. KB claims they never see any issues with the stock cats failing in FI applications. This would counter the idea that aftermarket high flow cats fail due to trying to flow an extra 2.8 or whatever liters of air through them. Stock cats were not designed to flow that extra 2.8 liters, but supposedly they hold up fine. This leads me to think it is a quality issue, not a flow issue. Tuning will play a part in that too, improper tuning can kill the stock cats too.

I've been told by a very well known and reguarded tuner on this forum that even the stock cats will fail with time, but KB says they've never seen it on a application they tuned. Does this mean the tuner I spoke with doesn't know how to tune to make cats last, or is KB just trying to prevent sales from getting hurt?

I'd really like to go FI, but I have to keep my cats, and I am not willing to replace them every few thousand miles. If stock cats will last I'll stay with them as I also can't be too loud. One problem I have is finding someone to tune the car in a manner that the cats will last and I'll still get a ton of extra power. If tuning for the cats to last means not getting jack for additional power, then I just won't bother going FI.

I realize you got to pay to play, but there are plenty of FI factory cars (ZR1, ZL1, CTS-V...) that make good power and have cats that last. That's the type of setup I want, but I dont want to spend $60 to get there (ZL1) when I already have a perfectly good Camaro 2SS that I only paid $30k for new. Do I need to get some CTS-V cats welded in place of my factory ones to hold up to FI or will the stock ones be fine? I hope we can get a diffinitive answer to this soon since I'm sure there are more out there in the same position as me.

I'm with you; All sounds a bit hokey-pokey to me. Kind of like when something goes wrong on a project and it's obvious what went wrong but finger pointing starts in every direction.

What I find really interesting is not one of the manufacturers of these so called HF cats are involved with the thread to set the story straight.

That confirms to me something isn't quite right about all of this.

You're are exactly correct; If the stock CATs are sufficient, then:

1. Why are all the installers recommending HF cats?
2. If HF CATs, flow more than OEM CAT's why are they melting and blocking things up?

Totally illogical.

[UNRIVALED SS]

mtbikerinme83,

I`m in the same boat as you. From what I`ve read, if nothing changes my mind in the next two weeks. mine are coming out . It`s just not worth the risk of damage.

[TCAT]

I'm thinking along the same lines as you guys. It's a catch 22 because I want high flows, but don't want to risk them blowing out all the time and the cost and trouble of replacing them often. Then, on the other hand, it makes you want to buy midpipes so you don't have to deal with crappy cats giving out, but it's illegal and the possible fine involved is unbelievable. If it's that big of a deal I may jsut stick with OEM IF they can last a lot longer than high flows, and just deal with the loss in power associated with doing so.

[tony1]

Well... Are the Hi-Flow Cats ok with 500whp ?? Also I never heard of any enforcement folks taking off your Cats and looking at them ... that will leave the door open to just gut them then ... Ted says you'll need a Re-tune if you do? Don't know what to do anymore ...

[S-eatin-grin]

swapping the cats back in is not that big a deal for inspection day...limp it to the station and back and take em back off...done for the next 12 months. I've already found a lazy shop that practically hands you the inspection sticker as you walk in, and I have a friend with a lift...but could easily do it myself on jack stands.

[VADER SS L99]

Originally Posted by S-eatin-grin

swapping the cats back in is not that big a deal for inspection day...limp it to the station and back and take em back off...done for the next 12 months. I've already found a lazy shop that practically hands you the inspection sticker as you walk in, and I have a friend with a lift...but could easily do it myself on jack stands.

This seems like the best solution for long tube header owners that have inspections. To those of you that are leaving the stock manifolds on I would suggest either run the stock cats or no cats at all and then put them in at inspection time. If your running the stock manifolds then its unlikely you are going to be pushing alot of power or boost anyway and the stock cats should run fine as they are built alot better than the aftermarket ones that come with our headers.

[4thGen427CI]

If that's what it takes, it will be done

[Rcfiddy1]

Originally Posted by tony1

Well... Are the Hi-Flow Cats ok with 500whp ?? Also I never heard of any enforcement folks taking off your Cats and looking at them ... that will leave the door open to just gut them then ... Ted says you'll need a Re-tune if you do? Don't know what to do anymore ...

I am running Stainless Works headers and High Flow cats with my KB at 520rwhp for 6 months and 10-15k miles on them. I took them out the other day to do some exhaust work and low and behold they look perfectly fine. My car has seen trackdays at least 2 a month and a 100 mile commute daily. If they are gonna fail I will just replace them. SW says they are designed for FI engines so lets see how it goes...

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Rcfiddy1

I am running Stainless Works headers and High Flow cats with my KB at 520rwhp for 6 months and 10-15k miles on them. I took them out the other day to do some exhaust work and low and behold they look perfectly fine. My car has seen trackdays at least 2 a month and a 100 mile commute daily. If they are gonna fail I will just replace them. SW says they are designed for FI engines so lets see how it goes...

Most people with FI are doing quite a bit more than 500rwhp. so you may be good now, but as your power increases the CAT's will fail.

[PIC]

Hey guys, I work for Performance Industries, we make the cats that ARH, Bassanni and Magnaflow use. I am the lead welder/fabricator. I was pointed to this thread by some camaro owners on LS1tech. I may be able to lend a hand here.

The only other manufacturer of high flow cats is Random Technologies that we are aware of, and they supply most of the other exhaust companies that we dont....yet.

Does anybody that has ARH ever had a problem with their cats? We've personally never heard anything from any of our clients so far about a cat failing, so if they have please tell me, I would love to hear what happened and if possible see pics or even have the failed cats sent back to us so we can improve our product.

Most pictures I see right now of failed cats are 300 CPI cores with no washcoating on them at all and it looks as if the nickel alloy brazing agent didnt hold up to the heat of the exhaust or maybe they werent even brazed to begin with from the manufacturer.

If anybody has any question or concerns, please let me know, I would love to help out here.

[nyny69]

Originally Posted by PI_CATALYTIC

Hey guys, I work for Performance Industries, we make the cats that ARH, Bassanni and Magnaflow use. I am the lead welder/fabricator. I was pointed to this thread by some camaro owners on LS1tech. I may be able to lend a hand here.

The only other manufacturer of high flow cats is Random Technologies that we are aware of, and they supply most of the other exhaust companies that we dont....yet.

Does anybody that has ARH ever had a problem with their cats? We've personally never heard anything from any of our clients so far about a cat failing, so if they have please tell me, I would love to hear what happened and if possible see pics or even have the failed cats sent back to us so we can improve our product.

Most pictures I see right now of failed cats are 300 CPI cores with no washcoating on them at all and it looks as if the nickel alloy brazing agent didnt hold up to the heat of the exhaust or maybe they werent even brazed to begin with from the manufacturer.

If anybody has any question or concerns, please let me know, I would love to help out here.

Welcome to C5.

I had the ARH Cats on my car that failed. While I never saw them they were rattling pretty bad. Jannetty racing removed them while doing other work and stated they totally melted and collapsed. I wish I still had them to show but I'd have to defer to Ted.

[PIC]

Originally Posted by nyny69

Welcome to C5.

I had the ARH Cats on my car that failed. While I never saw them they were rattling pretty bad. Jannetty racing removed them while doing other work and stated they totally melted and collapsed. I wish I still had them to show but I'd have to defer to Ted.

Sorry to hear about that man. One problem we have is that most of the time our customers like ARH or what have you wont tell us when theyve had a failed cat or anything of that nature. We are in the process of upgrading alot of things and are designing newer cores to hold up to excessive heat. If you could somehow get pictures or something, that would be awesome. Do you have cats on your car now? I see you're whippled too, did this happen pre or post whipple?

[nyny69]

Originally Posted by PI_CATALYTIC

Sorry to hear about that man. One problem we have is that most of the time our customers like ARH or what have you wont tell us when theyve had a failed cat or anything of that nature. We are in the process of upgrading alot of things and are designing newer cores to hold up to excessive heat. If you could somehow get pictures or something, that would be awesome.

Cool can't wait to see what you come up with.

I'm seeing Ted soon I'll check with him. Thanks for the help

[PIC]

Originally Posted by nyny69

Cool can't wait to see what you come up with.

I'm seeing Ted soon I'll check with him. Thanks for the help

No problem man, glad to help. We are about to get a whippled camaro from a friend of the companies owner so we can do some tests with it and develop the best product we can for you guys.