Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Grabber

Want me to leave, just say so.

Both the GTR and ZR1 are similarly priced.

Here you are trying to tell me that a Modified ZR1 ran 4 seconds faster than a STOCK GTR, and are trying to convince me the tires, cage and other equipment is purely for safety.

You never answered my question.

Have you ever owned a car with a Roll cage. Have you ever felt the before and after difference?

Sorry to say, but at least on those other "forums" there are not 45 threads of how crappy Camaro's are, and how badly Chevy will get owned. I've only seen 4-5 in depth discussions.

Unlike here, where there are dozens of threads talking about how crappy Crustangs, Mustakes, Mistakes, Shitstangs, Rustangs really are.

Are you Camaro enthusiasts, or car enthusiasts? Big difference bewteen the two.

I don't want anyone to leave that doesn't have interest in CAMARO.

All you're trying to do is bash GM, Corvette, and more importantly CAMARO. If that's your intent, you might as well find the door.

I've had cars with SFCs, so I'd say I have an idea, considering they were both T-top cars that I played with on the track - thanks. You're trying to dismiss any achievement with safety equipment but look past other obvious factors that play into these runs. I'm done, and so are you, so please don't bother posting more off-topic comments.

When someone can point me to the time when faster times don't equal better performance and capability, then I'll conceed. I'm not sure where anything was over-hyped. We have, what, three tests so far, in the winter; at least one was on a cold day with a dusty track (it seems to me all three reviews were on the same track, but it's not clear the conditions). There are still lots of other conditions we don't have data on so declaring ZL1 over-hyped seems pretty premature, IMO.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Nothing. That's the point. This site lends itself to the Camaro enthusiast primarily, not the Corvette enthusiast. There are plenty of sites that do if you just want to argue GM versus Ford. The fact remains, the GT500 and ZL1 are direct competitors. Who really cares how bad either measures up to a car in a completely different class of vehicle.

Just ask GoldenBear, he made the point with is position regarding the Porsche variant in comparison with the ZL1.

I have never thought that it made much sense to compare the Corvette to a Camaro or a Mustang. I don't believe there is much cross shopping between the two classes of vehicles, as they really have different applications.

The point that some make regarding Chevrolet vs. Ford is that Chevrolet currently has two performance vehicles that it produces and supports, and Ford currently has only one, and, therefore, Ford can focus all of its performance development on one production vehicle, while Chevrolet must spread its performance development across two production vehicles.

[htron50]

POINTLESS arguments. They are planted just to stir the pot. I repeat, all three magazines to date gave the ZL1 VERY HIGH RESPECT! So, that tells me that it was NOT over hyped. It lived up to and pleasantly surprised the Magazine Editors and drivers!

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by zero

still over hyped IMO it`s not like it blew the boss off the track. If the reg boss beat the camaro SS by 2 secs lap we all be saying not that big deal considering the boss made for handling, our SS are heavy etc, etc....

Now we have a camaro ZL1 with it`s super high tech state of art suspension, ton of power and all the hype they shoveled at us and now...

2 SECS faster than Boss LS and now it`s night and day difference and I should be impressed.

First off, it was 2.45 seconds. That can be a lifetime in the racing world. Anyway, 2 seconds at one track means something different than 2 seconds at another track. Considering the relatively short 2.2 mile distance of the track the ZL1 is very impressive. If you look at the data there are very few spots where the Boss 302 closes the gap at all. Typically you might see one car handle better on some portions of the track and the other car handle better on the other portions. This doesn’t really happen here. It is fairly one sided.

The Boss 302 was considered more of a driver’s car than the GT500 and lap times between the two are negligible in difference. It is a Motor Trend / Probst favorite. It outranks the Z06 in this test:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1109_2011_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/viewall.html

Read what they say in the above article and then realize the ZL1 bests it nearly everywhere.

Now enter the 2013 GT500. It will be impressive and should post better lap times, 0-60 and ¼ mile times than the Boss 302. It will probably beat the ZL1 in a straight line. But on a road course? Unless the track is full of long straights with minimal cornering, I’m placing my money on the ZL1 to equal or best it. I guarantee the GT500 won’t give the driver as much confidence or make the lap time as easy as the ZL1. I could be wrong, but that’s probably why they haven’t posted their Nurburgring times.

How again is this not impressive?

[BLACK10]

im to the point now that i think the ZL1 should have been called the Z28 since it is seems to be a road course car and not really a drag strip car.


to say that chevy is making the COPO for drag racing.....yes you are correct but that is apples and oranges. that is a pure non-street race car that will probably sell for $100k......if you could ever get your hands on one.

[collins motorsport]

Here's my opinion untill ford builds a car to best the ZL1 WITHOUT help from an adtermarket performance company then Im not impressed. The ZL1 was developed by chevy engineers in a chevrolet facility while ford builds their rustangs and ship em off to be tuned.

[zero]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

You might want to wait to make such assessments until both cars meet at the same track with the same professional driver on the same day.

Agreed

at the very least it makes both GM and Ford step it up a notch which is a win for everyone.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by radz28

I don't want anyone to leave that doesn't have interest in CAMARO.

All you're trying to do is bash GM, Corvette, and more importantly CAMARO. If that's your intent, you might as well find the door.

I've had cars with SFCs, so I'd say I have an idea, considering they were both T-top cars that I played with on the track - thanks. You're trying to dismiss any achievement with safety equipment but look past other obvious factors that play into these runs. I'm done, and so are you, so please don't bother posting more off-topic comments.

When someone can point me to the time when faster times don't equal better performance and capability, then I'll conceed. I'm not sure where anything was over-hyped. We have, what, three tests so far, in the winter; at least one was on a cold day with a dusty track (it seems to me all three reviews were on the same track, but it's not clear the conditions). There are still lots of other conditions we don't have data on so declaring ZL1 over-hyped seems pretty premature, IMO.

Well, you assumed and mis-judged me again.

Read my posts.

I want a Camaro in the future. I LOVE the way they look, sound, feel and perform.

I am having a discussion here, and NONE of my posts have ever put down a Camaro, or said it was slow, ugly, can't perform.

I've also never said something like you and others have about Crustangs, Crapstangs, etc. like Crapmaro, etc.

I have, however, said if anyone is in Chicagoland, and wants to see how slow and crappy Mustangs are, I'll gladly offer a challenge of any kind in my Rustang/Crapstang/S**tstang/Mustake/Mistake Found on Road Dead Ford Mustang.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by htron50

POINTLESS arguments. They are planted just to stir the pot. I repeat, all three magazines to date gave the ZL1 VERY HIGH RESPECT! So, that tells me that it was NOT over hyped. It lived up to and pleasantly surprised the Magazine Editors and drivers!

That Motor Trend, who seems to me to usually be critical of a lot of GM products (especially CAMARO), seemed pretty pleased with ZL1's performance. I think that speaks volumes to the chassis, tuning, and engineering all of GM's people put into ZL1. I'm proud to be an enthusiast and will be happy as a pig in s**t when I get my CAMARO ZL1 or not

I'm also liking some more tidbits of information we're getting about other features and changes to ZL1. Hearing about the 8-point joints in the half shafts, transmission cooler ducts in the undertray, and 600 clutch-drops was just plain SWEET! I'd like GM to officially post that stuff so I can have confidence in adding it to the FAQ!!!

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

First off, it was 2.45 seconds. That can be a lifetime in the racing world. Anyway, 2 seconds at one track means something different than 2 seconds at another track. Considering the relatively short 2.2 mile distance of the track the ZL1 is very impressive. If you look at the data there are very few spots where the Boss 302 closes the gap at all. Typically you might see one car handle better on some portions of the track and the other car handle better on the other portions. This doesn’t really happen here. It is fairly one sided.

The Boss 302 was considered more of a driver’s car than the GT500 and lap times between the two are negligible in difference. It is a Motor Trend / Probst favorite. It outranks the Z06 in this test:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/1109_2011_motor_trend_best_drivers_car/viewall.html

Read what they say in the above article and then realize the ZL1 bests it nearly everywhere.

Now enter the 2013 GT500. It will be impressive and should post better lap times, 0-60 and ¼ mile times than the Boss 302. It will probably beat the ZL1 in a straight line. But on a road course? Unless the track is full of long straights with minimal cornering, I’m placing my money on the ZL1 to equal or best it. I guarantee the GT500 won’t give the driver as much confidence or make the lap time as easy as the ZL1. I could be wrong, but that’s probably why they haven’t posted their Nurburgring times.

How again is this not impressive?

Excellent points. It doesn't sound like the GT500 is going to have an active suspension, unlike ZL1, and it sounded like that SRA wasn't happy over some of the rougher parts of that track (though - it sounded like he was talking about the rumble strips...). Still - even with the power and weight disadvantage, I think ZL1 will still perform at least respectable times.

[SlingShot]

As in life, it's all about balance !!!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by collins motorsport

Here's my opinion untill ford builds a car to best the ZL1 WITHOUT help from an adtermarket performance company then Im not impressed. The ZL1 was developed by chevy engineers in a chevrolet facility while ford builds their rustangs and ship em off to be tuned.

Doesn't the "base" GT500 get engineering directly through Ford? That was my understanding

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by collins motorsport

Here's my opinion untill ford builds a car to best the ZL1 WITHOUT help from an adtermarket performance company then Im not impressed. The ZL1 was developed by chevy engineers in a chevrolet facility while ford builds their rustangs and ship em off to be tuned.

errrrr you need to read up more before posting. The GT500 is a Ford car, developed by Ford's SVT team, built at a Ford factory....they pay Carrol Shelby the right to use his name.

You maybe referring to the the GT500 supersnake which starts as a Ford GT500 then customer pays $30k+ to Shelby American in Las Vegas to turn it into a SuperSnake. That is no different to buying a SS then shipping it to SLP or Hennesey. You learned something today. You are welcome!
BTW, turning a GT500 into SuperSnake is a big waster of $$ IMHO. Car can't get the power to the ground, sent a friend of mine to the hospital, nearly killed him, for losing the rear end while entering a freeway on-ramp to catch up with the group at 1/4 throttle.

[BLACK10]

Originally Posted by Grabber

I have, however, said if anyone is in Chicagoland, and wants to see how slow and crappy Mustangs are, I'll gladly offer a challenge of any kind in my Rustang/Crapstang/S**tstang/Mustake/Mistake Found on Road Dead Ford Mustang.

if im ever up there ill give you a call

[Chevrole+]

People just don't realize that when one company makes a faster car, then the opposing company strikes back. That's why we have cars as fast as we do today.