Wheel weights on my Camaro's calipers

[Teleplayer]

Originally Posted by GRAHL

Pull your weight-free-calipered Bonneville up to the next 2010 Camaro you see and let's see who's worried about it!!

My bonnie is crying now.

[FirstLSK]

I am with Beechdoctor. I am an aerospace engineer as well -- my company is a large component supplier for the On-Star system.

I would wager that this started out as a proof of concept solution from the engineers and management said "SHIP IT". I can only imagine that there are some very pissed off automotive engineers over this.

Again, it must be stressed though that weighted calipers are NOT a hack. Many high-end auto makers do it. The hack is how the weights were added. I am sure they will come up with a properly engineered solution and then retrofit it to all that have wheel weights.

SO............ CHILL OUT.

[Restroom]

Originally Posted by FirstLSK

I am an aerospace engineer as well -- my company is a large component supplier for the On-Star system.

Well, that explains a lot. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to run to the lumberyard to pick up a six-pack.

[Beechdoctor]

Originally Posted by Restroom

Well, that explains a lot. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to run to the lumberyard to pick up a six-pack.

The point here isn't that his profession qualifies him as a Brembo/GM driveline engineer. However, anyone with an engineering background that looks at this issue shakes his/her head questioning what was the driving force to release what is obvious to be a rush to market decision. I'm sure that a few design engineers within GM silently share my and FirstLSK's opinion about this.

I've been involved with manufacturing design/installation of aircraft piston and turbine engines for 20 years and that does not make me an automotive brake expert. But I've seen similar poorly engineered decisions forced by finance and marketing pressures. That is obviously what has happened in this case too. No way was this a design engineers fix...it was a production/quality engineering patch to sustain production targets until a redesigned solution can be delivered with properly weighted calipers.

This brake "tape-a-weight" issue is not a big deal...GM could have delivered the cars without the weights and replaced or permanently modified the calipers under a service bulletin once new a design is final. But in the interest of reducing brake noise on the first few thousand cars, this short-cut was approved....it just looks ridiculous.

I just can't understand how any of us can look at this installation and not say WTF...and then suggest it was a proper design and should be delivery this way.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Beechdoctor

The point here isn't that his profession qualifies him as a Brembo/GM driveline engineer. However, anyone with an engineering background that looks at this issue shakes his/her head questioning what was the driving force to release what is obvious to be a rush to market decision. I'm sure that a few design engineers within GM silently share my and FirstLSK's opinion about this.

I've been involved with manufacturing design/installation of aircraft piston and turbine engines for 20 years and that does not make me an automotive brake expert. But I've seen similar poorly engineered decisions forced by finance and marketing pressures. That is obviously what has happened in this case too. No way was this a design engineers fix...it was a production/quality engineering patch to sustain production targets until a redesigned solution can be delivered with properly weighted calipers.

This brake "tape-a-weight" issue is not a big deal...GM could have delivered the cars without the weights and replaced or permanently modified the calipers under a service bulletin once new a design is final. But in the interest of reducing brake noise on the first few thousand cars, this short-cut was approved....it just looks ridiculous.

I just can't understand how any of us can look at this installation and not say WTF...and then suggest it was a proper design and should be delivery this way.

Good points. I think that statement I highlighted is one that everyone can agree on, and will be taken in one of 2 ways:

1) OMG! WTF! That looks ridiculous!
2) The only problem with it is its appearance, which is ridiculous.

Based on my understanding of the situation, the problem at GM was they noticed an unreasonable brake vibration just prior to production. The solution to this problem is to add weight to the caliper. Proper weights could not be made before production began. So while working on a permanent solution, they had 3 possible courses of action in the mean time: delay, let them make noise, band-aid. The band-aid solution was chosen, and I think most here would agree thats the best choice out of the three.

Obviously everyone (including GM) would prefer the car to be perfect in every single way from day 1. That will never happen with any car ever. If its not one thing its another. Should anyone simply be happy with things? No. Its good to not simply settle for poor quality. But its also bad to have unrealistic expectations. If GM had found this problem earlier, they would have had it fixed before production. Maybe something else had changed which caused the problem to appear when it was too late. It happens all the time, the fix for A causes problem B, the fix for B causes problem C, etc. Such is the world of engineering. Nobody has to like it, but it would be helpful if people at least understood it.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Good points. I think that statement I highlighted is one that everyone can agree on, and will be taken in one of 2 ways:

1) OMG! WTF! That looks ridiculous!
2) The only problem with it is its appearance, which is ridiculous.

Based on my understanding of the situation, the problem at GM was they noticed an unreasonable brake vibration just prior to production. The solution to this problem is to add weight to the caliper. Proper weights could not be made before production began. So while working on a permanent solution, they had 3 possible courses of action in the mean time: delay, let them make noise, band-aid. The band-aid solution was chosen, and I think most here would agree thats the best choice out of the three.

Obviously everyone (including GM) would prefer the car to be perfect in every single way from day 1. That will never happen with any car ever. If its not one thing its another. Should anyone simply be happy with things? No. Its good to not simply settle for poor quality. But its also bad to have unrealistic expectations. If GM had found this problem earlier, they would have had it fixed before production. Maybe something else had changed which caused the problem to appear when it was too late. It happens all the time, the fix for A causes problem B, the fix for B causes problem C, etc. Such is the world of engineering. Nobody has to like it, but it would be helpful if people at least understood it.

All my deleted posts practically stated the same thing you just did.. It would have been better had GM stated this scenario and avoid all this bad press it has gotten. A simple statement saying they are working on a better solution and you all will get it once it is available would have gone a long way..

[CamaroSpike23]

this thread is still going on? lol at this thread.

[tom692010]

#3696 had no weights on the calipers

[CynAgain]

Originally Posted by tom692010

#3696 had no weights on the calipers

interesting... 3934 picked up today has them as does 3305. Is 3696 yours? It should have the weights.

[camarorick]

Originally Posted by tom692010

#3696 had no weights on the calipers

Originally Posted by CynAgain

interesting... 3934 picked up today has them as does 3305. Is 3696 yours? It should have the weights.

Looks like #3622 doesn't have any either ( member Zeus95 )

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18918

Are there any photos of # 3934 ??

[CynAgain]

Originally Posted by camarorick

Looks like #3622 doesn't have any either ( member Zeus95 )

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18918

Are there any photos of # 3934 ??

I forgot they are on the SS only. 3696 is a 1LT

3305 is a SS confirmed to have weights by its owner

3305

3934 is a SS confirmed to have weights by its owner

3934

So now 3622 is a SS and should have them. Do we know for sure?

[Rodrunner]

Originally Posted by FirstLSK

I am with Beechdoctor. I am an aerospace engineer as well -- my company is a large component supplier for the On-Star system.
I would wager that this started out as a proof of concept solution from the engineers and management said "SHIP IT". I can only imagine that there are some very pissed off automotive engineers over this.
Again, it must be stressed though that weighted calipers are NOT a hack. Many high-end auto makers do it. The hack is how the weights were added. I am sure they will come up with a properly engineered solution and then retrofit it to all that have wheel weights.
SO............ CHILL OUT.

FirstLSK, I'm sure you've dealt with similar engineering problems, and I don't think for a moment you were trying to raise yourself above others by stating you were an engineer. I've seen a similar temporary fix for a fighter jet that had me saying, "NO WAY!" But it worked and a more aesthetically pleasing and permanent fix was developed. I fully expect GM will do likewise.

[Jamie Mac]

Ugly but I'll take them versus wait for the car. If anyone ask about them I'll just say that they are like a tootsieroll tootsie pop. The world may never know.

[Musclebee]

Mine has them too.