Now the tests out, ZL1 over hyped

[GT5Junkie]

3750 is a typo, and it's a pretty obvious typo considering the GT500 weighs 3820 and the GT weighs 3603.

[Deki]

JusticePete, I was wondering the same thing. How is a GT500, while maintaining the same LRA set up and 255/285 tires, regardless of what kind of electronic adjustable dampers it gets, going to perform better than a ZL1 with MRC and 285/305 tires with a pretty decent IRS? What else could they have done that would allow it to compete with the ZL1 in the turns? I don't know if the 300lbs. less weight will be enough to offset the difference.

[chain777]

Yeah Pete, that's definitely a typo on the Ford site.

Anyway, I'm not arguing what you're saying about the track prowess of the ZL1 vs the GT500. It's gonna take a lot for the Ford to keep up. I don't know everything Ford has in store to beef up the GT500, but things like using a carbon fiber drive-shaft are one example of increasing strength while maintaining or even losing weight are possible.

Ford has already stated that the '13 isn't going to be picking up any significant weight from the '12, so if what they're doing is going to be enough to keep up with the ZL1 on a road course is anyone's guess. We'll find out soon enough.

I will go out on a limb (not really), and say in straight line performance, the Camaro's gonna have it's hands full.

[htron50]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

This has been addressed already my friend. If you don't believe what I am saying look it up on MotorTrends website.

ZL1
0 to 60: 3.8 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.1 seconds

EDIT: AUTOMATIC 12.0 on stock tires!!!! By ROOKIE@@

2011 Shelby

0 to 60: 4.1 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.35

Who edited that??

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

On the dyno, the Camaro had better numbers. On track, using data logging software they were close to even. The difference is the GM ECM pulled timing do to IATs



The V6 curb weight comes directly off Ford's website comparison of the Mustang and Camaro. http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/compare/

The added weight for 650 ponies is not just coolers. It is everything required to support the increase in power. That is why the ZL1 is heavier than the SS. Back to the Mustang, the light weight stamped steel third arm is not adequate to control 650 HP. Ford can dip into their racing parts bin and pull out a plate verion of the upper mount and a tubular spherical arm. It will work. It weighs more than the stock stamped part. Then we move to the arms, the panhard bar, the stamped steel rear chassis brace, the front rear chassis brace, a better strut tower brace, engine mounts, upgraded clutch, tranny, drive-shaft, brakes and the list keeps going...

None of the details really matter. What matters is lap time. There is nothing that suggests, from any published data, that a current GT500 is significantly faster around a road course than the Boss even though the GT500 has more HP. Think about that. How would adding even more HP help? Road course lap times are momentum dependent, how much speed do you carry into and out of the turns. To make up for time lost in corners is hard to do with straight away acceleration. The acceleration advantage has to be HUGE and that also requires a corresponding improvement in braking. At Then we get back to the tire contact patch as the limiting factor in performance. Can you really open the throttle with 650 HP coming out of a turn?

i dont get it, how are you going to say you work with these cars as extensively as you do and that youre unbiased but then go list the curb weight listed on a web site and not actual measured weight people have been getting? its obvious there was a typo on the website.

[htron50]

Are we really in the Camaro 5 Website? I think the trolling is about worn out.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by htron50

Are we really in the Camaro 5 Website? I think the trolling is about worn out.

having a disagreement is not trolling. Nobody here is name calling or trash talking. The people trolling are the ones who make blanket statements to get a rise out of people like "the GT500 sucks, no fords can keep up" or "the ZL1 is a fat pig of a car" or whatever. Both cars are awesome in their own respects and deserve props

[GT5Junkie]

Originally Posted by Deki

JusticePete, I was wondering the same thing. How is a GT500, while maintaining the same LRA set up and 255/285 tires, regardless of what kind of electronic adjustable dampers it gets, going to perform better than a ZL1 with MRC and 285/305 tires with a pretty decent IRS? What else could they have done that would allow it to compete with the ZL1 in the turns? I don't know if the 300lbs. less weight will be enough to offset the difference.

I've seen two head to head comparisons between the CTS-Vs and the 12 GT500, and one of them the GT500 won by .2 seconds (C&D at VIR) and the other the GT500 won by 1.5 seconds (R&T at Spring Mountain).

So in that comparison, we've got IRS and MRC vs. LRA and nonadjustable suspension, essentially equivalent HP and equivalent tire sizes (the GT500 has 265 fonts, btw, not 255), and about a 380 pound weight difference.

ZL1 vs 13 GT500, we've still got IRS and MRC on one side, but it's vs LRA and adjustable suspension (allowing SVT to go more aggressive in their tuning) on the other. Instead of similar tire sizes, the ZL1 is 20mm wider. Instead of similar HP, the GT500 has a 70-90 HP advantage. Instead of a 380 lb weight difference, it's a 270 pound weight difference.

So, main things going for the Shelby
100-120 HP more than 12 500
Better suspension than 12 500
Already had a road course advantage over the CTS-V

Main things going for the ZL1
24 more HP
80 pounds lighter
Wider tires

Who's gonna win? Tough to say, I think. Anyone that thinks either one is going to blow the other away is probably full of baloney, I think it's going to be very close.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by htron50

Are we really in the Camaro 5 Website? I think the trolling is about worn out.

Yup...agreed. Question; Who's a bigger fool, The Fool, or a Fool who folllows him?

Time to call in airstrikes, danger close,...set coordinates,..ooops, too late, .....INCOMING!!!!

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by GT5Junkie

I've seen two head to head comparisons between the CTS-Vs and the 12 GT500, and one of them the GT500 won by .2 seconds (C&D at VIR) and the other the GT500 won by 1.5 seconds (R&T at Spring Mountain).

So in that comparison, we've got IRS and MRC vs. LRA and nonadjustable suspension, essentially equivalent HP and equivalent tire sizes (the GT500 has 265 fonts, btw, not 255), and about a 380 pound weight difference.

ZL1 vs 13 GT500, we've still got IRS and MRC on one side, but it's vs LRA and adjustable suspension (allowing SVT to go more aggressive in their tuning) on the other. Instead of similar tire sizes, the ZL1 is 20mm wider. Instead of similar HP, the GT500 has a 70-90 HP advantage. Instead of a 380 lb weight difference, it's a 270 pound weight difference.

So, main things going for the Shelby
100-120 HP more than 12 500
Better suspension than 12 500
Already had a road course advantage over the CTS-V

Main things going for the ZL1
24 more HP
80 pounds lighter
Wider tires

Who's gonna win? Tough to say, I think. Anyone that thinks either one is going to blow the other away is probably full of baloney, I think it's going to be very close.

this is probably the most informative post in this thread!

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

i dont get it, how are you going to say you work with these cars as extensively as you do and that youre unbiased but then go list the curb weight listed on a web site and not actual measured weight people have been getting? its obvious there was a typo on the website.

Seriously????

It say's it right on FORDS SITE. You can't make much more of a honest mistake than that.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Yup...agreed. Question; Who's a bigger fool, The Fool, or a Fool who folllows him?

Time to call in airstrikes, danger close,...set coordinates,..ooops, too late, .....INCOMING!!!!

I agree. A little too much pot stirring is going on around here.

Colonel Lucas: When you find the Pot Stirrers, infiltrate their team by whatever means available and terminate the Pot Stirrers.
Captain OldScool: Terminate the Pot Stirrers?
General Corman: They're out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond the pale of any acceptable human conduct. And they are still on the Internet commanding troops.
Civilian: Terminate with extreme prejudice.
Colonel Lucas: You understand, Captain, that this mission does not exist, nor will it ever exist...

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Seriously????

It say's it right on FORDS SITE. You can't make much more of a honest mistake than that.

im sure it likely is an honest mistake. I just thought that maybe he had worked with the mustang enough and measured/witnessed what they actually weighed instead of relying on someone elses numbers is all.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

im sure it likely is an honest mistake. I just thought that maybe he had worked with the mustang enough and measured/witnessed what they actually weighed instead of relying on someone elses numbers is all.

If you needed some quick info about a Mustang why would you not go to Ford's website????? Some of Yall are stirring the pot just to stir the pot and it's getting old.