(jalopnik) Chevy’s Anti-GT500, Pro-Camaro ZL1 Smack-Talking Powerpoint

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

I love my crappy iPhone typing technique. Still, I'm usually much worse. Good thing I have proofreaders here at work.

I would not want to come off as pedantic.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Grocery getter is not a statement of use, but in fact a designation of a type of car primarily designed for day to day use. As a marketer for Nissan, Toyota, Porsche, and others over my 25 year ad career, I can assure you the term grocery getter was never ment to apply to a sports car or coupe of any type. You are simply being pedantic.

For me, grocery getter is exactly a statement of vehicle use. In fact, my one of my Camaros is my grocery getter. You may use grocery getter as marketing or urban slang to describe a certain type of vehicle. However, that doesn't mean that grocery getter is a formally documented and accepted term, such as in the Oxford English Dictionary, to mean a particular style of car designed for day to day use. Regardless, I thought the Camaro was, in fact, primarily designed for day to day use.

Call it pedantic if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that it is often an accurate description of a vehicle's use, and academic, scholarly, scientific, or precise work often requires a certain amount of pedantic rigor.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Grocery getter is not a statement of use, but in fact a designation of a type of car primarily designed for day to day use. As a marketer for Nissan, Toyota, Porsche, and others over my 25 year ad career, I can assure you the term grocery getter was never ment to apply to a sports car or coupe of any type. You are simply being pedantic.

Wow... talk about being pedantic... I'll simplify it for you... Daily Driver = Grocery getter.

If your Camaro is going to be a garage queen or heavily modded it's not a Grocery getter. Otherwise it's just like any other Nissan, Toyota in your ads... except faster than most.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

For me, grocery getter is exactly a statement of vehicle use. In fact, my one of my Camaros is my grocery getter. You may use grocery getter as marketing or urban slang to describe a certain type of vehicle. However, that doesn't mean that grocery getter is a formally documented and accepted term, such as in the Oxford English Dictionary, to mean a particular style of car designed for day to day use. Regardless, I thought the Camaro was, in fact, primarily designed for day to day use.

Call it pedantic if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that it is often an accurate description of a vehicle's use, and academic, scholarly, scientific, or precise work often requires a certain amount of pedantic rigor.

I will call it pedantic. Thank you. Ironically, I am now off to get my groceries... I'll pass on saying with which means of transport. ;-)

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by mlee

Wow... talk about being pedantic... I'll simplify it for you... Daily Driver = Grocery getter.

If your Camaro is going to be a garage queen or heavily modded it's not a Grocery getter. Otherwise it's just like any other Nissan, Toyota in your ads... except faster than most.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

I will call it pedantic. Thank you. Ironically, I am now off to get my groceries... I'll pass on saying with which means of transport. ;-)

At the risk of being pedantic, I think you meant coincidentally, rather than ironically.

[BATMAN!]

Originally Posted by mlee

Wow... talk about being pedantic... I'll simplify it for you... Daily Driver = Grocery getter.

If your Camaro is going to be a garage queen or heavily modded it's not a Grocery getter. Otherwise it's just like any other Nissan, Toyota in your ads... except faster than most.

Why can't a modded car be a grocery getter? That would be no different than stock.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by BATMAN!

Why can't a modded car be a grocery getter? That would be no different than stock.

I think the implication was heavily modified for track or strip use only, and, therefore, not suitable for daily driving activities.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by BATMAN!

Why can't a modded car be a grocery getter? That would be no different than stock.

Because that guys' opinion is the only one that counts and nobody else can possibly be right on anything. So, if you're not getting a ZL1 like he is then you're car is a grocery getter regardless of what kind of vehicle it is, it's what you use it for that defines it as a grocery getter. But, yet if you have a non-stock SS then it can't be a daily driver so it's a track car.

I'm starting to think one flew over the cookoo's nest. If you catch my drift.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by BATMAN!

Why can't a modded car be a grocery getter? That would be no different than stock.

You left out a key word... I said "heavily" modded

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Because that guys' opinion is the only one that counts and nobody else can possibly be right on anything. So, if you're not getting a ZL1 like he is then you're car is a grocery getter regardless of what kind of vehicle it is, it's what you use it for that defines it as a grocery getter. But, yet if you have a non-stock SS then it can't be a daily driver so it's a track car.

I'm starting to think one flew over the cookoo's nest. If you catch my drift.

WTF

My ZL1 will be a daily driver and IMHO I consider it a grocery getter, even after I pully it down.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Because that guys' opinion is the only one that counts and nobody else can possibly be right on anything. So, if you're not getting a ZL1 like he is then you're car is a grocery getter regardless of what kind of vehicle it is, ...

Are you familiar with sets and Venn diagrams?

The "if not A, then B" assertion that you state doesn't logically follow from my comments regarding grocery getters. If a car is not a ZL1, it is not necessarily a grocery getter, and, of course, a ZL1 can be a grocery getter.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

... it's what you use it for that defines it as a grocery getter.

Yes, you've finally appear to have gotten it!

Originally Posted by calbert1999

But, yet if you have a non-stock SS then it can't be a daily driver so it's a track car.

Again, "the if C, then not D" assertion does not logically follow. Of course non-stock SSs can be daily drivers. Just because mlee's implication that heavily modified Camaros for the strip and track aren't suitable daily drivers, doesn't mean that all modified SS are not suitable daily drivers.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I'm starting to think one flew over the cookoo's nest. If you catch my drift.

Where's Ken Kesey when you need him?

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

You don't have to track the car "to expect" that car to run well on a track if it's a freaking sports car man. Get real.

SS is not an upgrade of an LT the motors are "totally" different along with other things. The ZL1 is based on the SS, with some upgrades to the same motor, upgrades to the same suspension, upgrades to the same tranny. It's not a re-design of the Camaro dude. Just look around you can get ZL1 parts and put them on an SS from several vendors. What's does that say to you?

If you don't agree that okay, but don't make up dumb stuff for the sake of disagreeing.

Unlike you I don't belive Ford executives to be complete morons (they didn't take any bailout dollars are are doing very well), so my "expectation" is that they will make sure they can use that extra 90hp. otherwise you're correct it's useless. The Boss 302 seemed to fair quite well against the ZL1 with some upgrades to the GT500 and 90hp. Is it so un-believable it will beat the ZL1 on the track? Be "honest" for once.



I know a lot of people that use their Ferraris as grocery getters too. So what? Are Ferraris grocery getters because moma bear gets oatmeal with it at the local Whole Foods? Whatever man.

I use my SS to go to work, and run errands to, but by far an SS is or was marketed as a regular car for moma bear.

You come accross to me as one of those guys that just like to be right "all the time" so just like hearing yourself speak or seeing your writings on-line. As some of the things you say are just plain rediculous and there's never any compromise of your views.

I can say the ZL1 is a great vehicle, and I can understand everyones appeal to it even though I personally don't like it and prefer my SS with the mods I've done, but the ZL1 it is not a grocery getter, neither is the SS (or expected to be), and definately not a GT500 or Challenger or Charger. Saying that is just plain loopy.


Answer #1: Yes I do. With the right suspension and an extra 90hp. you damn right I do.

Answer #2: I was totally un-aware that GM had a plant on the Nurem"burg[er]" in Germany. They must have some great BBQ's there.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

1 - 0 win for me. Thank you.

Wrong. The Camaro is not a sports car.

I didn’t say the ZL1 is a redesign of the Camaro. It is, and upgraded SS. The SS is not a redesign of a Camaro either, it is the entry level performance model and an upgrade of the LT. It doesn’t matter how different the motors are, they are different.

Please don’t jump conclusions about me and my opinions about Ford executives, it makes you look uneducated. As a debater you should know this. Assuming you are right all the time actually portrays the opposite.

Honestly, it is reasonable to assume that if the current GT500 can’t use all of its HP, the new one won’t be able to use 90 more HP. The ZL1 can’t use all of its 580 with bigger tires and PTM.

You are the pot calling the kettle black calling goldenbear one of ‘those guys’ who has to be ‘right all the time’.

And 4 misspellings in one post and then calling someone out on theirs? Get real.

I don’t even have to touch your other posts, this one pretty much seals the deal. Amateur hour. Glad you ‘won’ in your mind though.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

Grocery getter is not a statement of use, but in fact a designation of a type of car primarily designed for day to day use. As a marketer for Nissan, Toyota, Porsche, and others over my 25 year ad career, I can assure you the term grocery getter was never ment to apply to a sports car or coupe of any type. You are simply being pedantic.

Not singling you out...but....this seige is still in progress? It's risen to the point of lunacy, it's like a standoff against an unruly mob. As I recall much earlier today as I followed this thread, Goldenbear didn't even introduce the term "grocery getter" into this if one reads far enough back into to it to see who was the author of that phrase. He did take the bait though on his follow up reply, and was stuck with it since then. Lets get back on topic, this has gotten far off course. Arguments reach a point of irrelevance. That threshold has been left far behind. I may add though having read many debates, I equate Goldenbear to the HAL 9000.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

Wrong. The Camaro is not a sports car.

I didn’t say the ZL1 is a redesign of the Camaro. It is, and upgraded SS. The SS is not a redesign of a Camaro either, it is the entry level performance model and an upgrade of the LT. It doesn’t matter how different the motors are, they are different.

Please don’t jump conclusions about me and my opinions about Ford executives, it makes you look uneducated. As a debater you should know this. Assuming you are right all the time actually portrays the opposite.

Honestly, it is reasonable to assume that if the current GT500 can’t use all of its HP, the new one won’t be able to use 90 more HP. The ZL1 can’t use all of its 580 with bigger tires and PTM.

You are the pot calling the kettle black calling goldenbear one of ‘those guys’ who has to be ‘right all the time’.

And 4 misspellings in one post and then calling someone out on theirs? Get real.

I don’t even have to touch your other posts, this one pretty much seals the deal. Amateur hour. Glad you ‘won’ in your mind though.

You called it amateur hour, that's good the debate was over only an amateur wouldn't realize that. No I do not have to be right all the time, and I can accept that. But, when I'm right I'm right and all the bantering from amateur debaters to rant about nonsense they can't backup with facts will never change that. Now read the link, from the Chevrolet website, tell me how many times you can count the Camaro won "Sports Car" category rating, and admit defeat so I can go out and enjoy this wonderful Friday evening knowing I've just chalked up a 2-0 win.

http://www.chevrolet.com/2011-camaro..._%7C_camaro_ss

And, regarding spelling mistakes, I type at well over 90 words p/minute and not going to run through a spell checker all the time.

[mlee]

LMAO... a self professed professional debater who can type 90 wpm... goes from debating what is a "grocery getter" to what is a "sports car"...