Customer Complaint thread

[TheClassicCarKid]

Yeah it's nice that they're starting to roll around the streets

btw, that looks like Inferno Orange Metallic to me

[carjen]

Just checked a vin spreadsheet. You are right, it is a IOM.

[kdoske]

Man this sucks, I ordered my car on 04/14/09 and still don't have a camaro--W T F !!!!!!!!

[theshadow1234]

Yeah! I am so upset I haven't received my car! WTH? Im tired of driving my Mazda 70HP Car!!!

[jachevy28]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

I test drove one here in charleston a couple weeks ago, and Hendrick Chevy down here is supposed to be getting 6-7 this weekend. 5 of which are sold orders. add to that there's an IOM one with stripes driving around the lowcountry that is a sold order.

I hear ya, but I'm 4 hours from the lowcountry. Good for Rick
And the one they brought to our auto show was one of the mish-mashed pre-pro cars, so, I just want to see a "real" car someday, that's all. The first one I see might be mine.

[logan1080]

Wow seems like GM isn't going to try and keep their enthusiasts around. Guess I will go buy a challenger. Just kidding but wow if I didn't want the camaro as much as I did I would buy something else after this ridiculous wait on a preorder.

[Haloman1346]

With Tomorrow being the "big day", who knows whats going to happen. Maybe this site will be a ghost town with half of us at our dealers signing on little black lines and looking out the window of the dealers office at our Camaros.

One can only imagine. One can only hope. One can only pray.

[KJS]

Originally Posted by Hylton

This is a bit different - this is a thread that concerns thousands of actual GM customers as apposed to one persons grief. Further, everyone is being very civil here which is a testament to the members of Camaro5!

With all due respect Hylton, SandiCandi was pleading the same case as you. It was NOT her (one person's grief) anymore than yours was a one person grief. Her tone was as civil as everyone elses. Re-read it and you see the same message, but she was just as passionate. Only it was delivered weeks before yours.
She talks of the pre-orderers not getting their cars before others, poor communication with its loyal customers, contacting the press, which you said you would give us the names and addresses to.
She even suggests it wasn't fbodfather's job to give us the information.

I don't see the messages as much different....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AN OPEN LETTER TO GM - And in the end....
All of the negativity that’s been posted on this forum and other threads are down to two simple things that companies somehow never seem to quite understand no matter how many MBAs and management consultants they employ. It comes down to a lack of communication and an understanding of how customers expect to be treated.

Those who were the "Early Oderers" of the 2010 Camaro expected that they would be the first to:
1) Have a realistic methodology of finding out, up to the minute, the status of their cars. There is so much distain for the 800 number that it has become the joke of the Camaro forums.
2) Expected that their cars were going to be among the first built.
3) Expected that their cars were going to be among the first to be delivered to them.
4) Expected that they would be given some special consideration because they were the first to put their hard earned money down on a car that they never actually saw, never sat in or drove, in an economy that has been the worst in 60 years, and are hearing almost daily the possibility of bankrupcy.
Instead, only some have received a letter and a picture, the infamous “Welcome Kit”. There are many more who ordered in October who are still waiting.
Yes, no one said the world is fair, but there hasn't been an attempt by GM to try to make it a bit fairer for those who are trying to back them - their CUSTOMERS!
So yes, the “early orderers” are 100% right for feeling they are not being treated fairly.
You can argue technicalities such as they didn't "buy a car" it’s just a place holder in the ordering process; that they were unrealistic in thinking their cars would be the first to be built, delivered, etc. But honestly, what percent of us are knowledgeable about the whole automobile ordering, manufacturing and delivery process. And because only a tiny fraction might know, then at the very least GM had a responsibility to send out communications to make it clear to the best of their ability what we were to expect. And they didn't. Not knocking “fbodfather”, but it is unfair that he could only offer hints at what was going on. GM employs people that are supposedly experts in Communications - what happened?
And yes we understand there is probably a significant amount of turmoil going on in GM, but this is just one car and probably one of the most significant one that is coming out in a decade, and it was GMs golden opportunity to show how they can get it right with their customers. They did not.
Perhaps the whole fiasco with the "launch" of the Camaro will be a business school study of what went wrong and how to avoid doing it again, or in another car company.
So GM, you have lost a lot of respect from your most loyal followers and customers, created some bad blood and rather than making the end of what would seem like Christmas Eve for the most forgiving among your customers, it’s been more like a bad bar fight amongst us.
I seriously hope that this thread makes it way to GM brass and soon. You owe us an explanation. We deserve nothing less. Perhaps the press will want to take notice and raise the issue to a higher tenor.
SandiCandi

[Hylton]

Thanks for pointing this out to me kJs. Very valuable post in light of todays developments.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

"
You make good points from 1 to 3. It's the paragraph above which is at issue. I know there are laws etc, HOWEVER, How can a law stop you from filling an order from lets say November with an order made in March? that baffles me.

=bobby

I want to make sure I understand what you're asking.

If I understand you correctly - the question is:

"Why are some cars that were ordered in November not being built and cars built in March ARE being built.."


A few reasons --


Number one reason?

Production scheduling -- we cannot build 100% SSs -- we cannot build 100% with 6-speed manual transmissions -- we cannot build 100% with sunroofs. We cannot build 100% 6 cylinders -- and we cannot build 100% automatic transmissions...........

Some of you have heard me speak at various events -- and you may recall that I still maintain that the hardest part of building a car is FORECASTING option penetration load.

See-- it would take a book to educate each of you on the complexities of producing a car or truck -- but the fact is that we have to forecast option penetrations -- and let's face it -- no one has ever done a perfect job doing that.

What? You say 'well the foreign manufacturers can!" -- and you are partially right -- because you see -- they hard package their options - or install 'accessories' at the port. For the most part -- when you special order a foreign car (Honda, for instance) - your order is matched to a vehicle on a ship or in the port......and that. my friends, is why you don't have a lot of choices when it comes to ordering, say, a Honda.

Now -- we could fix this real quick -- and reduce build combinations - but everything I've ever read -- or when talking to enthusiasts worldwide -- tells me that you want MORE build combinations.

Second:

We cannot build all of one dealer's cars and ignore another --

Look -- I'm going to say it again -- we understand your frustrations -- but I'm also going to point out a couple of facts:

>there were around 15,000 pre-orders.

>There is no way we can build everyone's orders first.

>We made it clear that we'd build all pre-orders by the third quarter.

>We have placed over half of these cars for production.

>The Camaro is a very desired car -- we make no apologies for that -- and we hope you don't either.

I'm not sure that we can make every one of you on this site happy -- we're trying - but we cannot magically build 15,000 cars that fast -- plain and simple.

I DO know that some people have been outspoken and I've tried to reassure them.

I DO know that some people claim to have Camaros on order -- and don't!

I DO know that some people -- who have Camaros on order -- are trying to be the voice of reason -- but when they do, they're told they don't read the thread or that they don't understand.


I DO know this: I'm seriously questioning the wisdom of sharing information on a new vehicle very early on -- there ARE lessons learned --

I DO know that if someone did a post-mortem on the various "panics du jour" and the various 'crises' -- it would embarrass some people --


Look - I don't know how to make it any clearer -- we want your business -- we value your enthusiasm -- but gentle readers -- I cannot be held hostage by someone's 'enthusiasm'......and I won't be.

[ZZcamaro]

Fbod-

Well said, and I must say that I do agree with you on the vast majority of your post.

I think the main concern is that people whom know their car has been built and then bayed for weeks with no communication. We would be OK with the delay if it was handled better from a PR angle. I for one know that I expect to know where my 40k investment is, and why it has not been delivered.

I think that is where the vast majority of the dis-satisfaction is coming from.

We understand there were issues, and there will always be on a new production, but once it has been repaired, I think we should be seeing the cars move for shipping, not continue to sit.

That is all, just my point of view, but I feel I many will agree with me on this.

Fbod - Again we thank you for being a voice of reason, and for developing a badass Camaro.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by UCF w00t

So why can't we demand that they do better when they make stupid decisions like this? This isn't a matter of not trying, it's a matter of not thinking things through. As passionate fans, we should demand the best from them.

I don't even know how to respond to this --

Stupid decisions?

Not thinking things thru?

Demand the best from them?

I'm not sure what the 'stupid' decisions are that you refer to -- but I DO know we've thought things thru - and we are doing our best. Look -- not to brag, but have some of you READ what people are SAYING about the cars on the road? Are you paying attention as to HOW the vehicles are being received by the public at large? The fact is that the car has incredible initial acceptance -- and, arguably, success....that means that there is heavy demand for it - -and that means that some -- SOME -- people -- are willing to pay over MSRP.......REGARDLESS of how many times I've typed "JUST SAY NO!"

The very easiest way to get initial 'approval' from some would be to ship the initial cars -- everyone's happy - until something goes wrong.

In case you missed it, there was an issue with a 'cracked' fascia over the weekend - by the time people got the REAL story, we'd been accused of everything EXCEPT the Lindberg Baby kidnapping!

Now -- we have made it clear that every one of the cars from start-of-production thru the end of March are being retro-fitted -- each car is being looked at very carefully and they are receiving the close scrutiny that they deserve.

Pay attention to the next part: (because I've discussed this many times already...) The issue of retrofits is nothing new. All new vehicle programs have this issue -- the difference is that years ago, the vehicles were shipped and THEN corrected.....at the dealership level........ The solution: We go dark -- and by that I mean we go back to being tight lipped and we no longer share information -- we start production without talking about it - we allow you to guess about the new car --(...and we saw where THAT went early on in the development of this car....) we allow you to guess about when we're going to start building them..... -- and we quietly start building them and holding them....and when the retrofits are done - we THEN start shipping cars -- of course that means that everyones' cars are 3 months later....but hey -- you asked for it......

Is that what you collectively want? (...newsflash - you'll never get a collective agreement...)


EDIT:
Wow -- I just read thru this post -- and I just hate posting something like this -- but frankly, a few people need to calm the heck down -- and stop making accusations - esp. when they have no idea or experience in building something this complex......

My apologies to most of you -- I really hate when a website boils over like this.......

[VR Code R6P]

If I tell you what I want built in advance, why should it take longer than it normally would when I order any other vehicle?? I have ordered many new vehicles, and normally the wait is 6-8 weeks. GM sounds like they want a lot of us to wait till at least the 3rd Qtr......why? If I would have ordered March 16th, I would normally be getting a car soon. I order Oct 16th, and I'm still at 1100 on a number one allocation to my dealer. I must be missing something........

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by ZZcamaro

Fbod-

Well said, and I must say that I do agree with you on the vast majority of your post.

I think the main concern is that people whom know their car has been built and then bayed for weeks with no communication. We would be OK with the delay if it was handled better from a PR angle. I for one know that I expect to know where my 40k investment is, and why it has not been delivered.

I think that is where the vast majority of the dis-satisfaction is coming from.

We understand there were issues, and there will always be on a new production, but once it has been repaired, I think we should be seeing the cars move for shipping, not continue to sit.

That is all, just my point of view, but I feel I many will agree with me on this.

Fbod - Again we thank you for being a voice of reason, and for developing a badass Camaro.

well -- thank you -- and I wish I could agree with you -- but I don't think that's what most people are upset about - -

What most people are upset about -- at least from what I'm reading -- and from the PMs I've rec'd -- is this:

" ...I ordered my car on October 18th and I should be first!..."

No one from GM ever said that if you order your car on October 18th, you'll be first -- we said those cars -- when ordered within a dealer's allocation - would be built by the third quarter - and we will accomplish that - in fact we hope to accomplish it much sooner.........

There are many issues -- I'm trying to explain as many as possible -- and the many complexities -- but all too often there are 'experts' that tell me I'm wrong.......in fact someone told me I didn't know what I was talking about when it comes to Auto Franchise laws in various states!! (the person making this statement, I'm assuming must be an attorney that has extensive experience in franchise law...???)

Look -- I've got broad shoulders - it comes with the territory ...-- but I AM losing patience with some - esp. those who mislead..........

But --I digress - I thank you for your kind words.