2012 gt500 vs 2012 Zl1

[Vette TPI]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

You're right. The key, though, is consistent vs fast. 10/10 times LC will get you an impressive time...while doing it yourself might get you there a little quicker even a pro-driver can botch up a manual launch from time to time - weekend warriors like us will mess up more often.

That said -- I'll be practicing both ways up until the Fest...hopefully I can get the hang of racing from a dig without computer help by then.

I completely agree with you, I am not dissing on the ZL1 at all! But I dislike the nannies really. I take my car out once in a while and launch her as best as I can without much tire spin and it gets pretty consistent with more practice. Because I have NO traction control. I hope you get as great as you want and better with both methods on your ZL1, I've been currently reading your thread and seems like a great pony I would love to set next to Nicky.

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

Another good comparison would be the 2012 HPE650 Boss 302 ...

0-60 = 3.9
1/4 mile = 11.9

the 124mph tells the real story about how brutally fast its going to be though. The ZL1 has averaged roughly 116mph. Im sure the ZL1 will touch 11's stock though. It certainly has enough tire to do it

[JusticePete]

Car & Driver

Steven Cole Smith
Bilstein Damptronic...Firm and Very Firm... it felt like the tires were attached to your spine
Understeered like the world's fastest front wheel-drive car
Stability control... momentary one wheel braking
On dips, you do feel the extra weight
It is the proving grounds policy to run winter tires

Michael Austin
With the ZL1, General Motors has made the Camaro into a true GT car -- daily driver, long range missile and track day special all in one.


Hmmm...
200 MPH with tires attached to you spine
180 MPH true GT car, long range missile and track day special

Sounds familiar...

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Car & Driver

Steven Cole Smith
Bilstein Damptronic...Firm and Very Firm... it felt like the tires were attached to your spine
Understeered like the world's fastest front wheel-drive car
Stability control... momentary one wheel braking
On dips, you do feel the extra weight
It is the proving grounds policy to run winter tires

Michael Austin
With the ZL1, General Motors has made the Camaro into a true GT car -- daily driver, long range missile and track day special all in one.


Hmmm...
200 MPH with tires attached to you spine
180 MPH true GT car, long range missile and track day special

Sounds familiar...

I bet the zl1 understeers with two different sets of snow tires too

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I bet the zl1 understeers with two different sets of snow tires too

Can you say, dumb, dumber and dumbest, because those are the guys Ford had running the Car & Driver GT500 event. When we at Pedders setup an event, we set it up to show our best possible performance. Why would Ford arrange a vehicle review at a track where they knew in advance would handicap the car with winter tires? That was partner Dumb. Partner Dumber made the earlier decision to use Firm and Very Firm dampers. Dumbest came up with traction and stability control a decade behind the ZL1 system. Together they turned what should have been a Ford lovefest into a disappointing article.

All good sales and marketing programs use product strengths to position the product in the market place as a class leader. For the GT500 that appears to be raw horsepower and blistering fast 1/4 mile times. So why would we be at a road course on the winter tires They should have been on a drag strip with the best Goodyears money can buy banging the drum so loud it would be impossible to even think about a ZL1.

Ford seized the high ground with a 650 HP motor announcement when the ZL1 TEAM was announcing final specs. They gave it all back with a poorly constructed event, Chevy brought a GT and demonstrated a world class GT automobile the ZL1. Ford brought a 650 HP monster and demonstrated a 650 winter tire handicapped limp noodle.

Were I running Ford, there would be three people with a lot of explaining to do. They took the best car Ford makes and turned it into an also ran.

[almach]

Originally Posted by Deki

Nothing Ford has out as of this moment even comes close the ZL1, and I'm sure it will hit high 11s in the 1/4 without a tire change, they just need to test it in more favorable conditions, instead of some God forsaken dust bowl of a track.

Really? I will be happy to just see a ZL1 at the strip, it makes no difference if we run against each other or not! Someone actually taking it out an running the car (instead of quoting other drivers times) will impress me!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by almach

Really? I will be happy to just see a ZL1 at the strip, it makes no difference if we run against each other or not! Someone actually taking it out an running the car (instead of quoting other drivers times) will impress me!

Shouldn't be all that hard to impress a Mustang owner

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Vette TPI

I saw the motor trend video where they said ZL1 launch control is just more consistent. But when he revved to 2k and let off the clutch with proper speed and feathered the throttle depending on traction he received a 3.8 0-60 speed. Faster than even the automatic

You have to be a pretty good driver and have a good track

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

I'm glad you said this and not me.

Zl1 is a sweet ride....but reading some of these threads, I'm starting to think the ZL1 can cure cancer.

Wait - it can't?

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Can you say, dumb, dumber and dumbest, because those are the guys Ford had running the Car & Driver GT500 event. When we at Pedders setup an event, we set it up to show our best possible performance. Why would Ford arrange a vehicle review at a track where they knew in advance would handicap the car with winter tires? That was partner Dumb. Partner Dumber made the earlier decision to use Firm and Very Firm dampers. Dumbest came up with traction and stability control a decade behind the ZL1 system. Together they turned what should have been a Ford lovefest into a disappointing article.

All good sales and marketing programs use product strengths to position the product in the market place as a class leader. For the GT500 that appears to be raw horsepower and blistering fast 1/4 mile times. So why would we be at a road course on the winter tires They should have been on a drag strip with the best Goodyears money can buy banging the drum so loud it would be impossible to even think about a ZL1.

Ford seized the high ground with a 650 HP motor announcement when the ZL1 TEAM was announcing final specs. They gave it all back with a poorly constructed event, Chevy brought a GT and demonstrated a world class GT automobile the ZL1. Ford brought a 650 HP monster and demonstrated a 650 winter tire handicapped limp noodle.

Were I running Ford, there would be three people with a lot of explaining to do. They took the best car Ford makes and turned it into an also ran.

True. I didn't know that it was really all that great for GM to have a media event in the winter on a dusty track, but I believe I can see why. However - the article I believe you're talking about was exactly like you said. It just wasn't smart. However, like you said, I think Ford is still focusing on straight-line performance.

I bet I could find posts from years ago saying that I had hoped GM would make ZL1 (Z28) into a real GT car, just like they have. I can't wait to see what you guys are going to do to yours I'm excited, in fact, for a lot of Sponsors to prove their products on ZL1

Originally Posted by almach

Really? I will be happy to just see a ZL1 at the strip, it makes no difference if we run against each other or not! Someone actually taking it out an running the car (instead of quoting other drivers times) will impress me!

As long as the driver(s) are good, lol. I'm not interested in seeing 14-second ZL1/GT500 times...

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Impressive runs for sure but once modifications of any type are entered into the mix there is no grounds for comparison to a stock vehicle. Many owners who have mods claim to only have this done or that done, as you and I know it is usually BS. Once Mods come into play it is usually the one with the most money winning or the one willing to sacrifice the vehicles creature comforts and streetability the most.

I think stock with tires is pretty much a good comparison for another stock with tires vehicle lol.

if the only mod is tires, you can compare it to another car with it's only mod being tires very fairly.

Unless of course you don't like the results then you can call BS and not accept anything.

[almach]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Shouldn't be all that hard to impress a Mustang owner

I set the bar low, so if I do get impressed (which is still in doubt), maybe I would get a chance to be even more impressed with a side by side demonstration of the capabilities of the ZL1.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Can you say, dumb, dumber and dumbest, because those are the guys Ford had running the Car & Driver GT500 event. When we at Pedders setup an event, we set it up to show our best possible performance. Why would Ford arrange a vehicle review at a track where they knew in advance would handicap the car with winter tires? That was partner Dumb. Partner Dumber made the earlier decision to use Firm and Very Firm dampers. Dumbest came up with traction and stability control a decade behind the ZL1 system. Together they turned what should have been a Ford lovefest into a disappointing article.

All good sales and marketing programs use product strengths to position the product in the market place as a class leader. For the GT500 that appears to be raw horsepower and blistering fast 1/4 mile times. So why would we be at a road course on the winter tires They should have been on a drag strip with the best Goodyears money can buy banging the drum so loud it would be impossible to even think about a ZL1.

Ford seized the high ground with a 650 HP motor announcement when the ZL1 TEAM was announcing final specs. They gave it all back with a poorly constructed event, Chevy brought a GT and demonstrated a world class GT automobile the ZL1. Ford brought a 650 HP monster and demonstrated a 650 winter tire handicapped limp noodle.

Were I running Ford, there would be three people with a lot of explaining to do. They took the best car Ford makes and turned it into an also ran.

It was a preview ride-along, not a full test or comparison, so it really didn't mean more than furthering speculation. You also seemed to neglect their comments on some of your continually expressed concerns and the context of the comments you quoted. This context is important because it presents striking contrast with your own conclusions drawn from other statements in the very same article. For example:

"A portion of Ford’s proving ground has adjoining strips of pavement that replicate different surfaces, from smooth asphalt to very bumpy roads, the latter achieved by bolting strips of steel to the pavement. On some surfaces, the difference in the two suspension settings was barely perceptible, while on others, it felt like the tires were attached directly to your spine."

Quoting without context the way you did seems to give the impression the ride is extremely rough on all terrains while the article clearly states the opposite.

"Of course, the Shelby’s extra 215 pounds over the Boss Laguna Seca also increase front downforce. On dips, you feel that extra weight, but what are you going to do?"

Again, context.

Some comments I'm surprised you missed based on your previous posts -

"The suspension does a remarkable job of keeping the tires planted coming off elevation changes, and there is no perceptible body roll. Stability control can be turned off entirely, of course, but it’s so good in sport mode that you have to wonder if you need to."

"Surprisingly, though, Martindale says that, properly heated by a good burnout, the stock Goodyears nearly match the slicks’ launch traction."

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

...
Unless of course you don't like the results then you can call BS and not accept anything.

LOL

kinda like how everyone here used to bag on the Dodge challenger srt8 for being "too expensive" but in reality it was because it came so loaded and now the ZL1 is really expensive but people praise it because it comes pretty loaded

[MauriSSio]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

It was a preview ride-along, not a full test or comparison, so it really didn't mean more than furthering speculation. You also seemed to neglect their comments on some of your continually expressed concerns and the context of the comments you quoted. This context is important because it presents striking contrast with your own conclusions drawn from other statements in the very same article. For example:

"A portion of Ford’s proving ground has adjoining strips of pavement that replicate different surfaces, from smooth asphalt to very bumpy roads, the latter achieved by bolting strips of steel to the pavement. On some surfaces, the difference in the two suspension settings was barely perceptible, while on others, it felt like the tires were attached directly to your spine."

Quoting without context the way you did seems to give the impression the ride is extremely rough on all terrains while the article clearly states the opposite.

"Of course, the Shelby’s extra 215 pounds over the Boss Laguna Seca also increase front downforce. On dips, you feel that extra weight, but what are you going to do?"

Again, context.

Some comments I'm surprised you missed based on your previous posts -

"The suspension does a remarkable job of keeping the tires planted coming off elevation changes, and there is no perceptible body roll. Stability control can be turned off entirely, of course, but it’s so good in sport mode that you have to wonder if you need to."

"Surprisingly, though, Martindale says that, properly heated by a good burnout, the stock Goodyears nearly match the slicks’ launch traction."

wow, that actually changes everything! i should have read the article instead of that guys cliff notes!! thanks for the very informative post

[NoWRX]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

It was a preview ride-along, not a full test or comparison, so it really didn't mean more than furthering speculation. You also seemed to neglect their comments on some of your continually expressed concerns and the context of the comments you quoted. This context is important because it presents striking contrast with your own conclusions drawn from other statements in the very same article. For example:

"A portion of Ford’s proving ground has adjoining strips of pavement that replicate different surfaces, from smooth asphalt to very bumpy roads, the latter achieved by bolting strips of steel to the pavement. On some surfaces, the difference in the two suspension settings was barely perceptible, while on others, it felt like the tires were attached directly to your spine."

Quoting without context the way you did seems to give the impression the ride is extremely rough on all terrains while the article clearly states the opposite.

"Of course, the Shelby’s extra 215 pounds over the Boss Laguna Seca also increase front downforce. On dips, you feel that extra weight, but what are you going to do?"

Again, context.

Some comments I'm surprised you missed based on your previous posts -

"The suspension does a remarkable job of keeping the tires planted coming off elevation changes, and there is no perceptible body roll. Stability control can be turned off entirely, of course, but it’s so good in sport mode that you have to wonder if you need to."

"Surprisingly, though, Martindale says that, properly heated by a good burnout, the stock Goodyears nearly match the slicks’ launch traction."

Yes, exactly, thank you.

It was *NOT* a review, it was more of a preview. Car and Driver didn't even drive the cars themselves, Ford employed drivers drove them around as passengers. It'd be incredibly ignorant to make conclusions about the car based off of such a brief preview.

To me, the whole thing seemed to be an ad-hoc sort of thing. I'm sure someone from Ford called C&D at the last minute and said something along the lines of, "Hey, we're testing pre-production prototypes at the proving grounds, you're welcome to come out and see the cars and go for a brief ride". There was no formal testing done with any equipment.